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Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#221

Post by Arainach »

HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #213
Arainach wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal definition matters a lot if someone is trying to argue that VW advertising Android features is supposed to include GrapheneOS > Using anticompetitive and monopolistic tools is not the right of application developers. Please talk to an actual lawyer before making legal claims, because to be blunt it's very clear you don't know what many of those terms mean in a legal context. VW is not a "monopoly". They hav…

The legal definition of the OS does not matter at all when considering the difference between failing to support something, and using a tool that explicitly stops something from working that otherwise works without issue. Play integrity is a tool which does not base any of its certification decisions in privacy or security, rather leverages it for anticompetitive reasons. This is known and trivially verifiable. I do…

You've made a lot of leaps. IF something were declared to be anticompetitive, it would be in the context of the provider of the service. There is no law or moral issue with Volkswagen using it.

You may disagree with the concept of Device Integrity, but it is a feature with plenty of history and demand. Companies want their services accessed from secure platforms for security, and this is not inherently anticompetitive.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#222

Post by donkers »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #209
adrianN wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VW is large enough that different parts of the company can have very different opinions.

That itself though speaks for a broken company culture. If one part of the company is completely disaligned with the values of good engineering, why should anyone still trust the company as a whole? It seems they at the very least severely lack a good vision then, to uphold the company values or what should be the company values.

That’s how megacorps are. VW has almost 700K employees. Enforcing a company culture on that scale is a very diffuse and difficult thing. If you are evaluating whether you should trust a company based on their ability to enforce values throughout all their orgs, you really shouldn’t trust any company unless it’s a tiny one where this sort of thing can be a lot easier to hold the line on.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#223

Post by okanat »

anonymousiam wrote: post #133
this_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

If they have concerns about the security of their app on some platform, they have the choice to either put "security" into the app, or to trust the platform vendor to provide the security. The correct solution is the first way. Deferring trust to the platform provider is the lazy way. If their APIs are done correctly, they shouldn't be afraid to expose them.

You're proving the previous commenter's point. VW doesn't want liability. They do not care about "security" just liability.

When they leave the "security" to the platform they can blame them in a lawsuit.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#224

Post by Borealid »

tryauuum wrote: post #101
gonzalohm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would they even do that? A VPN is just a remote machine. Anything can be a VPN

Like in Russia - drop wireguard / OpenVPN packets crossing the country border - analyze https traffic to detect traffic patterns not matching https fully and block such connections

The state of the art, "xray-reality", is not blockable. It's a legit tls connection with data smuggled inside it.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#227

Post by teekert »

I got an iPad as backup with my 2fa stuff, and so I can keep an eye on kids in Apple ecosystem. When my iPhone mini does I'll go for /e/OS or GrapheneOS. And then I'll have the iPad lying at home for all the shenanigans that are nice but I don't even really need. My phone must serve me.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#228

Post by jp191919 »

moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

Not sure if Tesla is on your list, but FWIW Tesla app works fine on GrapheneOS

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#229

Post by jbxntuehineoh »

RickS wrote: post #93
AJRF wrote: post #23

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't…

I regret not signing up for Discord when they first introduced facial recognition and middle schoolers were trivially spoofing their ID checks with meme pics. There's really something to be said for greedily signing up for most things and trying to get grandfathered before the zipcuffs tighten. IRL, though, fuck this. Home depot added flock cams and broad facial recognition, grocery store installed turnstiles, haven'…

aren't online purchases even easier to track though?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#230

Post by moooo99 »

jp191919 wrote: post #228
moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

Not sure if Tesla is on your list, but FWIW Tesla app works fine on GrapheneOS

Indeed it does, but Tesla is firm on my no buy list
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