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Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

discuss.grapheneos.org

51–60 of 497 posts

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#51
post #47
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understanding how those around you operate makes you no less of a hacker. It can even make you a great/better one…

They don’t just understand, they basically promote it.

It felt more resigned than promotional to me; but yes, normalization is a fine line!

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#52
post #23

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't…

Who said the UK is going to ban VPN? Genuine question. That's news to me and I'm here.

https://xcancel.com/BBCBreakfast/status/2066788360606138759

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#53

This is sadly not even the full extent of it. What they did is, they locked their api entirely for anything that is not play protect certified. That means, all the cool stuff that was doable via community-driven projects is now dead in the water. The "app" they provide is 60% advertisement, 30% features, and I unironically preferred using a Home Assistant connection instead of of it for everything. Even for automatio…

So "Play Protect" is doing all the damage to the third-party ecosystem that it'd seemed designed for.

I've slowly but surely been moving away from any service provider of any type who does not allow me to use their service without their often Play Services-dependent app. Changing vehicles would be a lot harder though.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#54
post #23

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't…

Who said the UK is going to ban VPN? Genuine question. That's news to me and I'm here.

https://stateofsurveillance.org/articles/government/uk-lords...

It mostly happened already and it's in motion.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#55
post #37
post #23

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't…

There must be 10s of millions of x86 PCs with unlocked bioses in the UK. The issue won't be running an open device. The problem is software - what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work. The next logical step i…

> what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs?

One dual-boots to a reputable Linux vendor’s signed/sealed OS image with secure boot enabled in BIOS, so that the attestations are valid; financially supports said vendor; contacts them quarterly with check-ins on the status of their lockdown+attestation roadmap and uses professional journalism approaches to highlight their (in/)action; and, contacts one’s relevant governing body to petition for the addition of that vendor’s signed/sealed product line to be added to the authorized signatures list by both government-sponsored apps and to the verification platforms of the competing vendors (in order to balance the necessities of attestations with an appropriate degree of anti-monopolistic protections for consumers).

> It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work

This confidence that ‘attestation doesn’t really work’ is the same sort of confidence that lead the Linux user community to largely scoff at, and ignore, attestation’s threat from when it was ballistically launched three decades ago towards the future. Options are now very limited for stopping it, and largely reduced to ‘getting some Linux into the approval list’. Severe compromises in user freedom will be required for the signed+sealed distro images to receive government approvals.

Imagine if Linux were an app on a video game console and you start to see the outcome: it’s a perfectly great working environment into which all of /usr/local and /opt and /home are writable, but the lockdown prevents you from modifying the OS in any way that could defeat the attestation protections. Apps you install into /opt can only access their own /opt/prefix, apps you install into /usr/local can access $HOME. The apps you install can choose to write session data (such as digital age verification certificates) to a system-protected /data store keyed first by the kernel’s signature, and second by the vendor signature the kernel reads from the app; with the understanding that an attestation latch-forward after an exploit patch will wipe that store, and that dual-booting to a different vendor will suspend access to sessions stored by that vendor.

This is, to climb on my hobby horse for a moment, why I continue to believe that Valve will be the first Linux vendor to receive government attestation approval alongside Apple / Google / Microsoft have previously across the desktop and mobile spaces. I’d really prefer that to be Graphene, Ubuntu, and Valve — but Graphene’s customer base is hostile to this, Ubuntu doesn’t have any incentive to care, and of the Linux vendors out there, Valve has a decade-long head start on the need for a locked-down and attested platform for business reasons. All of the above falls out naturally from considering how to defend one app from another on Android, iOS, Steam Deck, and Xbox. So far as I can tell today, though, Linux intends to be left out in the cold on all this. Oh well.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said the UK is going to ban VPN? Genuine question. That's news to me and I'm here.

Think of the children that will bypass all of the "protections" recently adopted by the UK.

How would they even do that? A VPN is just a remote machine. Anything can be a VPN

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#57
It's not your car anymore, you're just renting someone else's hardware and access to their restricted platforms. Some recent cars even deny starting your car engine if the always on camera facing the driver thinks the driver isn't capable of driving "safely".

This is the WEF future your conspiracy uncle was telling you about during family gatherings. Well.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#58
post #23

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't…

Who said the UK is going to ban VPN? Genuine question. That's news to me and I'm here.

The "Technology Secretary" is actively investigating it[0].

[0]: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/new-vpn-...

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#59

Google Play has been a huge drag on innovation and security in the mobile ecosystem. I'm actually looking forward to the time when AI kills the mobile app ecosystem so that every phone manufacturer can bundle their own "vibe-code-your-own-app" system with their devices, and the Google Play monopoly is broken.

I see a future where it is easier for startups to create their own mobile devices than to deliver certain functionality through the Google and Apple platforms where your own data will be used against you and where their devices can record you 24/7 without any remediation to ensure privacy.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#60
post #37
post #23

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't…

There must be 10s of millions of x86 PCs with unlocked bioses in the UK. The issue won't be running an open device. The problem is software - what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work. The next logical step i…

Am currently trying to open a business bank account in the UK, several banks require running a proprietary ID validation app.
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