Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#101

Post by tryauuum » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 4:59 PM UTC

gonzalohm wrote: post #56

iAMkenough wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of the children that will bypass all of the "protections" recently adopted by the UK.

How would they even do that? A VPN is just a remote machine. Anything can be a VPN

Like in Russia

    - drop wireguard / OpenVPN packets crossing the country border
    - analyze https traffic to detect traffic patterns not matching https fully and block such connections

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#102

Post by binary132 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

subscribed wrote: post #88

binary132 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Users shouldn’t be same to control their own engines actually” hmm well ok then

May I introduce you to the "rolling coal" morons?

do you really think there’s no way to prevent or penalize that behavior without preventing the user from owning and operating their own engine?

also, what scale of harm do you think exists from those people?

do you really believe that control of one’s own engine should be removed from all vehicle owners if a few people misuse it?

do you understand that vehicle manufacturers use their proprietary systems that control the vehicle to exploit customers?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#103

Post by iroddis » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:01 PM UTC

techpression wrote: post #75

afarah1 wrote: post #36

Driving a rental car in Germany almost makes me cheer for the ongoing bankruptcy of their auto industry. It really needs a full reset at this point. Sad thing is EU law mandates for a modem in the car as well as intrusive driving aids that actually make driving less safe by constantly driving your attention away from the road[1]. So there is no hope to get a minimally decent car in Europe in the near future, unless a…

Whoever came up with the idea that the car should beep loudly even close to the speed limit has clearly never driven a car. The best way to silence it is to constantly be over the speed limit or well below.

Probably made worse by the fact that _every_ VW brand car I’ve driven has read about 10% high on the speedometer. I think I’m going 100 kph, but timing using the km markers on the highway show I’m going about 90.

When I talked to the dealers, they said that the speedometers only have to be accurate +/- 10% according to the SAE specifications.

After DieselGate I assumed that the high reading was to game the fuel consumption game.

Never again, VW auto group…

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#104

Post by user3939382 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:02 PM UTC

this_user wrote: post #90

moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

VW didn’t seem too concerned with compliance when they were rigging their pollution tests.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#105

Post by gslepak » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:05 PM UTC

moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

I'm kinda glad that it's VW blocking GrapheneOS users in a cynical way. When my parents got a VW Jetta they never stopped complaining about it and never bought one again. So it tracks that they'd also be the car manufacturer to block GrapheneOS and stomp on their user's privacy.

It's an easy market to win at this point. The bar has been lowered so much. Already have a nice car? Just don't display utter disdain for your user's privacy and you get our $$.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#106

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:07 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #66

Arainach wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a non-starter in most countries. Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. There are already massive problems with people miswiring head units to play videos while driving and updating their ECU to spew pollution into the air. You're not going to convince any significant number of people that it's a good i…

> Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. Then that's a poor design that should go the way of the dodo. Someone hacking the entertainment system should not be able to take over control of the engine. The entertainment system on planes do not allow one to hack into the autopilot. There should be no need for a fi…

"Safety critical" isn't just the drivetrain. I don't work in automotive and won't pretend to understand all the rules, but off the top of my head, some things that my car uses the head unit for:

* Backup Camera

* Turning traction control on/off

* Turning auto hold (maintaining the brake pedal while stopped) on/off

* Window defrosting

Many cars are even more integrated - are there any physical buttons inside a Tesla or is it all through the touchscreen?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#107

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:07 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #67

Arainach wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not. Use any car's heads up display and you can configure an enormous number of things. Even if there was somehow a pure separation, things such as "playing video while the car is moving" are regulated in many jurisdictions and would land firmly in the "UI" layer.

You can detect the car is in motion or not without talking to the engine computer. Just like my phone can tell I'm in motion without connecting to the car at all. You're trying to justify a bad design with bad reasoning

Not with the necessary precision. GPS doesn't work in tunnels or parking garages and can be wildly inaccurate in city centers with skyscrapers blocking line of sight, for instance.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#108

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:08 PM UTC

mohamedkoubaa wrote: post #80

dylan604 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can detect the car is in motion or not without talking to the engine computer. Just like my phone can tell I'm in motion without connecting to the car at all. You're trying to justify a bad design with bad reasoning

People watch videos on their phone while drive and will continue to do so no matter what infotainment OSes allow or don't allow.

"Some people break the law" is not a reason to not have laws. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#109

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:08 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #106

dylan604 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. Then that's a poor design that should go the way of the dodo. Someone hacking the entertainment system should not be able to take over control of the engine. The entertainment system on planes do not allow one to hack into the autopilot. There should be no need for a fi…

"Safety critical" isn't just the drivetrain. I don't work in automotive and won't pretend to understand all the rules, but off the top of my head, some things that my car uses the head unit for: * Backup Camera * Turning traction control on/off * Turning auto hold (maintaining the brake pedal while stopped) on/off * Window defrosting Many cars are even more integrated - are there any physical buttons inside a Tesla o…

> Many cars are even more integrated - are there any physical buttons inside a Tesla or is it all through the touchscreen?

If you're going to use the worst example as the comparison, then we'll get no where fast.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#110

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 5:08 PM UTC

mohamedkoubaa wrote: post #83

Arainach wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person's "controlling their own engines" is another "spewing nitrous oxides, carbon monoxide, and other pollutants into the air, giving cancer to neighbors and destroying the atmosphere". We tried the "don't regulate" path and it ended in a multitude of disasters.

You can regulate emissions without preventing custom tunes

In practice, no, you can't. Certainly not without enormous costs such as mandatory regular vehicle inspections.