Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#191

Post by DANmode » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

ddalex wrote: post #165

DANmode wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next thing you know these dirtbags are going to want to choose what wheels and tires to put on these things. The nerve! (Yes, repairability and standardization are encouraged where feasible.)

I would guess there are a couple of orders of magnitude difference between the complexity of interfaces comparing the head unit with wheels and tires. Like, the head unit is in control of all that happens on the slow bus of the car, and needs to pass independent safety certifications for a complex system.

I was replying to the bit on replacing the engine.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#192

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:50 PM UTC

ssl-3 wrote: post #134

Arainach wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not with the necessary precision. GPS doesn't work in tunnels or parking garages and can be wildly inaccurate in city centers with skyscrapers blocking line of sight, for instance.

The built-in, offline mapping in my Honda uses a whole host of local-only sensors to handle these situations where GPS is intermittent. It works rather well at figuring out where the car is on the map, and when it deviates from the prescribed route. It works in tunnels. It works in cities with tall buildings. It works on Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago. Is there some technological limitation that precludes using this d…

There's no need when OBD does just fine for this purpose.

It's also not clear what the purpose of this line of argument is. Some sensor says "car is moving". The operating system in the car/head unit is responsible for enforcing that signal, and it could ignore it equally from either OBD or some pile of gyroscopes. Where that signal comes from has nothing to do with why you will not see cars accepting custom operating systems.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#193

Post by padjo » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

uniq7 wrote: post #188

torginus wrote: post #151

Isn't this for the same reason why you can't do banking on an unlocked bootloader phone? There's no way to verify the integrity of the system, and any malicious app can just grab your banking credentials or enable criminals to unlock and drive away with your car.

> or enable criminals to unlock and drive away with your car Has this ever happened?

The VW app can't do remote unlock so that's not a problem. It allows you to turn on the aircon or start charging and that's about it. That only works 50% of the time anyway.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#194

Post by Lio » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

I've had the same Golf since I bought it new in 2014. I like my Golf, so it should be an easy sale for VW to sell me a replacement.

However, VW just seem to make gaff after gaff. Collecting information they shouldn't, exposing information they shouldn't have to hackers via lax security practices.

How many rakes can a company step on?

Now, they're blocking GapheneOS? They've got two hopes of selling me another 'Dub.

(Bob and No).

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#195

Post by FabCH » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

bojan wrote: post #86

moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

Same here. I'll be in a market soon and I had my eyes on a VW i4 or a Škoda Enyaq, but this makes me seriously reconsider. I really wanted to support local industry and buy a European product this time, but they are making it seriously difficult (no, don't get me even started on Stellantis).

Renault makes good electric vans.

Not quite an SUV, but maybe fits the same use case?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#196

Post by Arainach » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:53 PM UTC

HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #161

Arainach wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graphene is not a kind of Android. It doesn't even advertise itself as such: > GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility [ https://grapheneos.org/ ]

GrapheneOS is based on the Android Open Source Project and retains near perfect android app compatibility. It cannot call itself android for legal reasons, but the legal definition does not affect its app compatibility. Tools such as play integrity are illegal. Using anticompetitive and monopolistic tools is not the right of application developers.

The legal definition matters a lot if someone is trying to argue that VW advertising Android features is supposed to include GrapheneOS

> Using anticompetitive and monopolistic tools is not the right of application developers.

Please talk to an actual lawyer before making legal claims, because to be blunt it's very clear you don't know what many of those terms mean in a legal context. VW is not a "monopoly". They have no obligation to allow the use of their software on platforms they don't want.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#197

Post by Matumio » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:53 PM UTC

afarah1 wrote: post #36

Driving a rental car in Germany almost makes me cheer for the ongoing bankruptcy of their auto industry. It really needs a full reset at this point. Sad thing is EU law mandates for a modem in the car as well as intrusive driving aids that actually make driving less safe by constantly driving your attention away from the road[1]. So there is no hope to get a minimally decent car in Europe in the near future, unless a…

I recently saw a reportage about emergency call-takers. As you watch them work you'll notice they get an automatic call from the crashed car long before any human calls them, presumably from that modem.

I'm not arguing that the modem should be mandatory, or that you shouldn't be able to control what it does. But forcing car vendors who want to built in a modem to make this modem do an automatic emergency call by default, that seems quite sensible. Even more sensible would be if the modem did nothing unless you allow it, except when it detects that crash, but... profits.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#198

Post by dylan604 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:53 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #192

ssl-3 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The built-in, offline mapping in my Honda uses a whole host of local-only sensors to handle these situations where GPS is intermittent. It works rather well at figuring out where the car is on the map, and when it deviates from the prescribed route. It works in tunnels. It works in cities with tall buildings. It works on Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago. Is there some technological limitation that precludes using this d…

There's no need when OBD does just fine for this purpose. It's also not clear what the purpose of this line of argument is. Some sensor says "car is moving". The operating system in the car/head unit is responsible for enforcing that signal, and it could ignore it equally from either OBD or some pile of gyroscopes. Where that signal comes from has nothing to do with why you will not see cars accepting custom operatin…

The point of argument is that it no longer becomes a security issue to allow customOS on the infotainment system because it absolutely has no connection to the engine computer.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#199

Post by pmontra » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:54 PM UTC

My 2016 car has the old version of Android auto. My phone has the new one, I think from 2019 or 2020. They are incompatible. Did I miss something by not integrating my phone with my car? I don't think so. I call with Bluetooth and navigate with the screen of the phone. The only thing I'm using is the mic and speaker of the car. The mic is probably substantially better than any earpiece I could buy, because I suspect that it's designed to filter out noises from the car and from the road.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#200

Post by ssl-3 » Wed, Jun 17, 2026, 6:54 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #192

ssl-3 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The built-in, offline mapping in my Honda uses a whole host of local-only sensors to handle these situations where GPS is intermittent. It works rather well at figuring out where the car is on the map, and when it deviates from the prescribed route. It works in tunnels. It works in cities with tall buildings. It works on Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago. Is there some technological limitation that precludes using this d…

There's no need when OBD does just fine for this purpose. It's also not clear what the purpose of this line of argument is. Some sensor says "car is moving". The operating system in the car/head unit is responsible for enforcing that signal, and it could ignore it equally from either OBD or some pile of gyroscopes. Where that signal comes from has nothing to do with why you will not see cars accepting custom operatin…

> It's also not clear what the purpose of this line of argument is.

It completely dismantles your previous goalposts, which were planted firmly on GPS:

>> Not with the necessary precision. GPS doesn't work in tunnels or parking garages and can be wildly inaccurate in city centers with skyscrapers blocking line of sight, for instance.

(I guess we all have the freedom to be as flexible with our goalposts as we wish. I didn't come here for a tireless argument that is motivated by nothing but the desire to argue, though. Have a great day!)