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Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

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Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#111

Post by ssl-3 »

subscribed wrote: post #88
binary132 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Users shouldn’t be same to control their own engines actually” hmm well ok then

May I introduce you to the "rolling coal" morons?

No need. I've seen them.

In the States, for example: Every state I've looked at has laws that make it illegal to roll coal.

And at least in my own state (Ohio), it's a primary offense. A person can be pulled over and ticketed for this even if they're doing everything else by the book. It's super easy to spot.

It seems that it persists not because of a lack of laws, but because of a lack of enforcement.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#113

Post by xenocratus »

user3939382 wrote: post #104
this_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

VW didn’t seem too concerned with compliance when they were rigging their pollution tests.

They'd have you know they actually cared a bit too much about said compliance itself.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#114

Post by formerly_proven »

this_user wrote: post #90
moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

If I had to guess it’s liability concerns around the app-based remote unlock and parking + R155 and CRA. A lot of european companies have moved to require attestation in their apps, likely spurred on by the CRA.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#115

Post by this_user »

user3939382 wrote: post #104
this_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

VW didn’t seem too concerned with compliance when they were rigging their pollution tests.

I mean, the only reason they did it was to be able to comply with the requirements of the test.

But the reality is that every once in a while you have a scandal like this or something like Wirecard, and it happens, because the culture is such that absolutely nobody thinks it possible. That includes officials and regulators whose first instinct will often be to come after the people trying to expose the scandal, as has happened in the case of Wirecard.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#117

Post by quickthrowman »

stymaar wrote: post #45

I hate that cars are every day more and more crammed with software, when car manufacturers can't seem to be able to make half-working code in the first place (looking at you Nissan, who just can't even put the correct timestamp on your GPS data points…)

> when car manufacturers can't seem to be able to make half-working code in the first place (looking at you Nissan, who just can't even put the correct timestamp on your GPS data when car manufacturers can't seem to be able to make half-working code in the first place (looking at you Nissan, who just can't even put the correct timestamp on your GPS data points…)

Nissan sells a ton of cars to subprime borrowers, quality isn’t exactly their focus. Hyundai/Kia and Stellantis also target the same buyers.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#118

Post by Arainach »

binary132 wrote: post #102
subscribed wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I introduce you to the "rolling coal" morons?

do you really think there’s no way to prevent or penalize that behavior without preventing the user from owning and operating their own engine? also, what scale of harm do you think exists from those people? do you really believe that control of one’s own engine should be removed from all vehicle owners if a few people misuse it? do you understand that vehicle manufacturers use their proprietary systems that control…

> also, what scale of harm do you think exists from those people?

Serious health complications, particularly to cyclists and pedestrians. Significant pollution surges:

> According to government estimates, the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times. [https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/rolling-coal-donal...]

> AED estimates that the emissions controls have been removed from more than 550,000 diesel pickup trucks in the last decade. As a result ofthis tampering, more than 570,000 tons of excess oxides of nitrogen(NOx) and 5,000 tons of particulate matter (PM) will be emitted by these tampered trucks over the lifetime of the vehicles. [https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/epa-on-tampered-diese...]

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#119

Post by [deleted] »

formerly_proven wrote: post #114
this_user wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German companies, especially old school industrial ones like VW, have a very hard time understanding open platforms. The view everything through the lense of liability and compliance first. Their thinking is that if someone runs their app on a custom ROM and uses that to manipulate the app in any way, and that causes some extremely hypothetical damage, that they might be held liable for not having prevented this situ…

If I had to guess it’s liability concerns around the app-based remote unlock and parking + R155 and CRA. A lot of european companies have moved to require attestation in their apps, likely spurred on by the CRA.

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#120

Post by Arainach »

moooo99 wrote: post #71
Arainach wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Except for the fact that the car is sold as is with the features advertised (i.e. working with an Android app with no additional qualifiers as to which kind of android) AND that users are paying for these connective services

Graphene is not a kind of Android. It doesn't even advertise itself as such:

> GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility [https://grapheneos.org/]

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