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Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

discuss.grapheneos.org

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Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#161

Post by HybridStatAnim8 »

Arainach wrote: post #120
moooo99 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the fact that the car is sold as is with the features advertised (i.e. working with an Android app with no additional qualifiers as to which kind of android) AND that users are paying for these connective services

Graphene is not a kind of Android. It doesn't even advertise itself as such: > GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility [ https://grapheneos.org/ ]

GrapheneOS is based on the Android Open Source Project and retains near perfect android app compatibility. It cannot call itself android for legal reasons, but the legal definition does not affect its app compatibility.

Tools such as play integrity are illegal. Using anticompetitive and monopolistic tools is not the right of application developers.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#162

Post by subscribed »

ssl-3 wrote: post #111
subscribed wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I introduce you to the "rolling coal" morons?

No need. I've seen them. In the States, for example: Every state I've looked at has laws that make it illegal to roll coal. And at least in my own state (Ohio), it's a primary offense. A person can be pulled over and ticketed for this even if they're doing everything else by the book. It's super easy to spot. It seems that it persists not because of a lack of laws, but because of a lack of enforcement.

IMO they exist in spite of the laws (and more broadly "woke" science) and I'd expect much more of them if they became legalised.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#163

Post by nickserv »

isoprophlex wrote: post #139
abyssin wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2022 Dacia Sandero is a great car. Analog buttons, good build quality, well designed. And it’s cheap.

Possibly the single ugliest recent car though

And yet still has more personality than the latest Ferrari.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#164

Post by altairprime »

doublerabbit wrote: post #154
altairprime wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? One dual-boots to a reputable Linux vendor’s signed/sealed OS image with secure boot enabled in BIOS, so that the attestations are valid; financially supports said vendor; contacts them quarterly with check-ins on the status of their lockdown+attestation roadmap and uses professional journalism approa…

I would never ever trust Linux from a vendor. If it's not installed by myself, I refuse to use it. When you accept government gift in approval consider it tapped. At any point they can return to the vendor and go "install this". No? Okay bye to your certification. Call me paranoid.

> I would never ever trust Linux from a vendor. If it's not installed by myself, I refuse to use it.

I bet you would, though, if the built OS image were 100% reproducible except for the signature. Once you have a fully reproducible Linux OS build, you can literally copy paste the cryptosig from the vendor and it will work with the image you built yourself from source that you inspected yourself. Then it’s impossible for the government to tap it without breaking the reproducible image checksum and thus the published cryptosig. It’s a better defense than any warrant canary would be, and it satisfies your concerns fully.

Arch shows only 15 packages left for their core OS to be built reproducibly; what I don’t see at their dashboard is the state of their ISO build reproducibility, but I imagine that’s the same as the core, so maybe it’s just unstated for obviousness. https://reproducible.archlinux.org/

Does GrapheneOS publish their repro build efforts as a dashboard anywhere?

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#165

Post by ddalex »

DANmode wrote: post #15
ddalex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they ?! Do you also want to force them to design their cars so the engine is easily replaceable by a Custom Engine OS so that the community can build their own engines ?!?

Next thing you know these dirtbags are going to want to choose what wheels and tires to put on these things. The nerve! (Yes, repairability and standardization are encouraged where feasible.)

I would guess there are a couple of orders of magnitude difference between the complexity of interfaces comparing the head unit with wheels and tires.

Like, the head unit is in control of all that happens on the slow bus of the car, and needs to pass independent safety certifications for a complex system.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#166

Post by lenkite »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #57

It's not your car anymore, you're just renting someone else's hardware and access to their restricted platforms. Some recent cars even deny starting your car engine if the always on camera facing the driver thinks the driver isn't capable of driving "safely". This is the WEF future your conspiracy uncle was telling you about during family gatherings. Well.

The conspiracy uncle was right after all.

  "You will own nothing and be happy" - WEF Prime Objective.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#167

Post by bogeholm »

bojan wrote: post #86
moooo99 wrote: post #70

It is amazing how Volkswagen keeps messing up. I am currently in the market for a new car, an EV specifically. Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons, among them the excellent driving assist implementation. I got an offer from a dealer three weeks ago and was going to order the car, then the API for the community integration got turned off. I decided to hold back and see what comes from it. Now…

Same here. I'll be in a market soon and I had my eyes on a VW i4 or a Škoda Enyaq, but this makes me seriously reconsider. I really wanted to support local industry and buy a European product this time, but they are making it seriously difficult (no, don't get me even started on Stellantis).

Mercedes has some interesting EV options, and they have some models at the moment that are not necessarily that expensive. Through the grapevine I overheard something about surplus production due to mandate to build a certain number of EVs.

If you don’t want/need a new car, the used car market in Germany is pretty active with EQAs and EQBs.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#168

Post by bogeholm »

jstanley wrote: post #98
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Volkswagen brands were at the top of my list for many reasons You should definitely reevaluate how you constructed your list. VW has a history of being scummy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal ) and their ICE cars are notorious for being unreliable compared to the Japanese car-makers. To be fair, EVs do change the equation a bit, but given their scandal plagued past, there's no way I woul…

The emissions scandal is completely different, because in that case they were illicitly making the car work better for its owner.

Unless, of course, said owner cared for the environment

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#169

Post by ddalex »

callc wrote: post #27
ddalex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they ?! Do you also want to force them to design their cars so the engine is easily replaceable by a Custom Engine OS so that the community can build their own engines ?!?

Because laws are (mostly) a reflection of what society wants. People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies. Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readil…

> People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies.

10 out of random 10 drivers out there don't care about the software running in the car.

> Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readily available (and will be for decades).

You drive a self-maintained car. Nothing wrong with that, but I would guess 95 out of 100 drivers on the road don't care about the car at all - they just want reliable transportation from A to B and perhaps some confort.

> Just image how much worse society would be if car manus did the same thing as Apple and had ID-paired parts. Sorry! Your AC doesn’t work anymore, please install a genuine Honda oil filter at your nearest Authorized Honda Shop, available for a minimum of $500.

I don't have to imagine that al all, all premium car manufactures digitally id their components and will not accept 3rd party replacements.

Re: Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users

#170

Post by nyx »

ReptileMan wrote: post #112

Hey Mythos - create me open clone of VW software and tell me which chips to replace in the car. Thanks.

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