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There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

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Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#491

Post by dxdm »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #490
dxdm wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's stupidly obvious. Politics is about how we organize government and distribute power to solve the problems of living together as a society of individuals. "Big" vs "small" government is a particular way of interpreting one aspect of that. It's an important aspect and a useful perspective, but even if taken at face value it completely neglects other important things like the rules for making policy and their actua…

Oh everything you said makes sense so long as I imagine wrongly that everyone is doing what's best for society, and that's why they got into politics. But politics is really about negotiating ownership in companies that the politician will approve for government projects. And if you aren't doing that, then no other politicians will care to work with you, because it's not profitable for them. You'll be an irrelevant p…

Well, you could stop undermining what you seem to care for.

You don't have to "wrongly imagine" anything. Everyone not doing what's "best for society" is how the world works, authoritarianism and the rule of rich elites is the default that everything wants to regress to. There are only ever islands where people managed to push this back towards the corners and make room for more of us.

Human societies have taken millenia to come up with a system (or a few similar systems) which have a chance of holding things somewhat at bay. Is it perfect? Far from it. Does it work? Just honestly compare how things are for disadvantaged or even normal, ordinary people in places that work differently. Could it be better? You bet, there's lots to criticize. But notice that you _can_ criticize. Usually, elsewhere, you can't. Is it getting worse? Yes. The lesson is that you have to keep defending this system that gives you a chance to hold people to account and remove them from power.

Comments like yours above, which claim that everything is maximally bad and rigged, do nothing but help things decay further. "There's nothing that can be done! It's the same everywhere! Why even try?" That's how you get other people to stop caring, too, and then the real assholes take over. You're playing right into their hands. You think it's already as bad as it gets? You think you're no longer naive? Well, then maybe you're doing this on purpose; or you're just a new kind of naive. Either way: you are an active part of this problem.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#492

Post by mlrtime »

gwerbin wrote: post #326
mlrtime wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is garbage reposted in every HN article that starts to talk about any related to politics. I will gladly live in a conservative county over progressive one. And reading this paragraph in a article about AI is complete nonsense. This is a go touch grass moment if you needed one.

I personally repost it everywhere because it is an hypothesis that I believe has strong weight of evidence behind it, and I think it's important to repeat. Your personal preferences and beliefs have little to do with conservatism at large and the motivations of the powerful people who promote it. If you want to reach a place of open minded debate and discussion in which there can be different legitimate approaches to…

No, I don't.

"The entire movement of conservatism in America is a propaganda operation"

This is nonsense. I could easily say the same thing about progressives highlighting/cherrypicking some of the worst living situations in America today.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#493

Post by DonHopkins »

rustcleaner wrote: post #167
simianwords wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but you can’t hand wave safety concerns. I agree that they shouldn’t get monopoly over it but what if AI is strong enough to synthesise weapons and help in cyber security? What’s your answer to it? There are other people who have thought of it and it’s not that simple.

>Ok but you can’t hand wave safety concerns Sure I can! *waves* Thank goodness we have the First Amendment [here in America] and I can just go to a library to find books with that info anyway.

You're the self proclaimed Man Going Your Own Way.

rustcleaner> I was an early bird in MGTOW, but now it's common knowledge and operating strategy for most young men.

So how's that book of racist poetry you're writing going? Has it impressed the ladies and helped with your incelibacy problem?

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#494

Post by AlexeyBelov »

not_a_bot_4sho wrote: post #402
echelon wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've built one $2.5 million annualized run rate company using Opus this year. Four months of 50+% MoM growth. I couldn't have done that without the model giving me lots of time to do marketing. And build a complete feature set. So yeah. And the year is only halfway done.

I'm curious. What did you build? Sounds like you might have an interesting "Show HN" post on your hands

Nothing. They built nothing.

Proof: I've build a trillion dollar company.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#495

Post by notahacker »

derangedHorse wrote: post #455
notahacker wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 small guy changing stuff is basically impossible. But 100 million small folk sufficiently annoyed with something changes a government (for better and for worse), whilst having basically zero influence over a corporation (they're not the customer, they don't have enough buying power for a hostile takeover, they certainly don't have the wherewithal to destroy them by launching a competitor... which they probably don'…

> But 100 million small folk sufficiently annoyed with something changes a government (for better and for worse), whilst having basically zero influence over a corporation They don't have influence because you designed them to be so. You said they're not the customer and implied they have no influence over customers. Your argument says 100 million small folk in the same government jurisdiction have more government sa…

Things other governments do generally don't affect me as things other companies in the same market as me get away with doing, or things a company does in my neighbourhood though, and there are a lot more companies with power to hurt my interests than countries. Also there's the little thing called foreign policy that means 100 million people do, in fact, get to vote on how their government handles things other governments do which hurt them, to the extent their government has negotiation cards to play.

On the other hand pure market solutions mean "if you're not the customer, corporations can harm you and 100 million other people interests in their locality as much as they like".

The limitations of 100 million people's ability to stop the 10 million people across the border voting for something that will harm them come because international relations look less like a democracy and more like a market...

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#496

Post by robeym »

Having used and watched others use Fable, it's clear to me that the standard of care for these models done by Anthropic pre-release was nothing like their previous releases. It seemed like shortcuts were taken to get it released. Maybe the models are changing faster than their team can adapt, and maybe the government responded as quickly as they did because of their relationship with Anthropic. Regardless, I think regulation was appropriate here. Anthropic can take the time to refine and improve their internal models to have a more successful release next time. It is normal for the government to restrict potentially dangerous companies if the level of care seems below what is acceptable in the US. We've seen it a lot recently with FAA grounding rocket companies. I don't feel it is cruel treatment just cause it's Anthropic

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#497

Post by graemep »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #452
graemep wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only people who didn't vote along ethnic lines were westerners in the past 40 to 80 or so years, and that is rapidly changing and will almost entirely disappear in less than 50 years. Lots of countries (including many western countries) have some ethnic parties. That does not mean people will vote for their ethnic groups party - in general most will not. > This is why rapists and murderers get lighter sentences…

> Lots of countries (including many western countries) have some ethnic parties. That does not mean people will vote for their ethnic groups party - in general most will not. You can vote among ethnic lines without voting for an explicitly ethnic party, which is why Muslims almost invariably vote for leftists even though they are significantly more socially conservative than the most right-wing conservatives, but you…

its my SOP is it? I did not know I had one! Maybe you count stating facts as an "SOP"?

So you have moved ground from all non-westerners to just Muslims? Your original claim was "The only people who didn't vote along ethnic lines were westerners in the past 40 to 80 or so years," I assume that "westerners" is intended to mean "white"?

Muslims in the UK are more likely vote for left wing parties. So did Catholics traditionally (although that has changed in recent decades). Islam is not an ethnic group, it is a religion, and people's religion influencing their politics is not new or unexpected. In any case, a third of Muslims vote for parties on the "right". There are plenty of countries (especially several Muslim majority ones) where Muslims vote for the "right".

I assume that you are admitting that the things you made up are false?

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#498

Post by graemep »

coldtea wrote: post #475
graemep wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I am just a lot more sceptical than you are about firstly, how well anarchy would work (I do not think it would scale up to the size of modern societies), and secondly how quickly it would be replaced by else and how bad that something else would be.

For the first, I'd say modern societies didn't scale well themselves, which is what causes many of our issues. We need to scale them down, split them into thousands of smaller communities, with more autonomy. For the other, that's up for debate. They might just be replaced by misery on the current trajectory too.

I agree with you insofar as modern societies are over centralised. In my view the cure for this has to be more than just political - the economic structure (domination of the economy by big businesses) and technology and other things would also need to change.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#499

Post by graemep »

cbg0 wrote: post #446
graemep wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So did they stop any Iranian companies doing business with Iran? Did they stop China or Russia doing business with Iran? If Google Deepmind has to stop doing business with non-US citizens what will they do with their R & D in the UK and other countries? Will Mistral stop doing business in France? Will the Chinese AI companies stop doing business with everyone else (including China?) to retain access to US markets and…

There is an example of this and you can probably dig deeper if you're truly curious instead of just assuming things. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-forces-raid-ship-s...

I am not assuming anything. Military force is not the same thing as economic sanctions. Are you suggesting the US would be willing to use military force to stop the UK or France using technology developed in their own countries? Or from using Chinese LLMs? Otherwise this is irrelevant.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#500

Post by DELTRON2040 »

saurik wrote: post #408
temporaryacc2 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the price to pay is total human disempowerment, I think it's worth getting everyone on the same page before we proceed.

This is a steel man of Anthropic's argument, though, and the premise that there could have been a different thing they claimed that would hold up more doesn't and shouldn't defend their position. To the extent to which it comes down to automating and replacing the need for humans or supporting runaway execution that might accidentally kill all the humans, Anthropic routinely measures it, warns of it, and then release…

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