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There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

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Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#261

Post by bluecalm »

latexr wrote: post #155
PowerElectronix wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pick which of the two possibilities, neither of which is even close to your political views, will oppress you for the next 4 years.

While the USA is famously a two-party system, that’s not true of every democracy.

The system being 2 party, 3 party or 4 party system doesn't change much though. If you want to improve democracy you need stronger and more independent local governments and some way for people to directly vote on issues (both local and federal/country wise). Otherwise it will always be career politicians deciding on issues based on their personal interests.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#262

Post by MASNeo »

trhway wrote: post #50
MASNeo wrote: post #41

While this is regrettable the guardrails were rather sloppy and I managed to do things with Fable that really should not be possible. It seems with all the focus cyber and bio security, threat scenario analysis went out the door. I guess they will fix the guardrails and then open it up again.

the bigger point i think stands - we're going to have a similar story with AI as for example the 40-bit encryption of the past and drones of today, i.e. sure export controlled and most probably regulated practically away for general public. I.e general license to possess/access 8B model max, and maximum 3 models summing to max 16B in total.

Yes. Very much feels like the encryption story indeed. This is very normal in many industries. Explosives, space, chemicals etc.

The difference is that still the bio and space hackers are few and SWE are plenty so there is more of a collective voice.

I’d love to build a hobbyist space rocket. However, many tools and fuels required per my research can’t be obtained outside the US. So I didn’t even start.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#263

Post by duffydotsvg »

Disagree with the popular conclusions that this is either calculated anti-marketing or politically-motivated axe grinding. Both theories might carry some weight, but they belie the bigger picture. If you believe AI will be a determinant of economic growth, defense capacity, scientific advancement, and geopolitical supremacy over the next few decades, then state supervision/control was always inevitable. There's already precedent in nuclear tech, chip tech, aerospace tech, etc. In theory, the stakes here are 100x higher. USA and China will do whatever they can to get a competitive edge over the other. Meaning this is probably just the first salvo in an ongoing series of similar events. At the end of the day, I'm not sure any of it will matter. All signs point to the models being basically impossible to contain.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#264

Post by graemep »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #185
graemep wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only an issue if you have sufficiently deep ethnic divisions within a country that people automatically vote on ethnic lines.

[flagged]

> The only people who didn't vote along ethnic lines were westerners in the past 40 to 80 or so years, and that is rapidly changing and will almost entirely disappear in less than 50 years.

Lots of countries (including many western countries) have some ethnic parties. That does not mean people will vote for their ethnic groups party - in general most will not.

> This is why rapists and murderers get lighter sentences than people who say the wrong thing in Britain, as long as the rapist or murderer is non-western enough.

That is just made up. Vickrum Digwa has just been jailed for life with a 21 year minimum while Lucy Connelly served an year for directly calling for violence (telling people they should burn down buildings is not just "saying the wrong thing").

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#265

Post by graemep »

ako wrote: post #258
graemep wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add, the multiple parties in the UK just means I have more choices that are not close to my political views!

Apparently not enough people want what you want, that is also democracy, accepting that things other people want can be prioritized,

That is true, but it also means that multiple parties does not solve the problem of the parent to my first comment in this thread which as "You can pick which of the two possibilities, neither of which is even close to your political views, will oppress you for the next 4 years.".

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#266

Post by graemep »

cbg0 wrote: post #219
graemep wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly to stop people with US businesses from doing business with Iran or Cuba. To stop an American owned British company from doing business in the UK? To stop a French company doing business in France? To stop either doing business with the rest of the world? To stop anyone doing business with China? Its really not comparable.

They absolutely can impose sanctions on foreign companies by restricting their access to US markets, investments and penalizing US banks doing business with them. For some EU companies this is irrelevant, but for global companies this becomes a problem.

So did they stop any Iranian companies doing business with Iran? Did they stop China or Russia doing business with Iran? If Google Deepmind has to stop doing business with non-US citizens what will they do with their R & D in the UK and other countries? Will Mistral stop doing business in France? Will the Chinese AI companies stop doing business with everyone else (including China?) to retain access to US markets and banking?

The likely end result of this is that it will shrink the market to which American companies have access by more than it will shrink the market for anyone else.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#267

Post by wffurr »

Guvante wrote: post #82
9dev wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to fix things would be proportional representation and moving away from the two party system.

On the one hand giving parties more power sounds a little gross. On the other hand I don't know a solve for every bill having less than a handful of votes that are bipartisan...

3 or 5 member multi-member voting districts determined by a geographic clustering algorithm using approval voting.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#268

Post by dxdm »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #251
dxdm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's vastly more to politics than that. There's even more to "small" vs "big" government than that, or to who really promises and delivers what. This convenient reduction to handy little words obscures all that, to the point where it stops mapping to reality in a meaningful way. It's a fictional abstraction. If anything, your question reduces to making one party sound incompetent or deceitful, I don't know if that…

> There's vastly more to politics than that. I thought so in my teens. But now I know that I was naive. How can you be sure that you're not?

It's stupidly obvious. Politics is about how we organize government and distribute power to solve the problems of living together as a society of individuals. "Big" vs "small" government is a particular way of interpreting one aspect of that. It's an important aspect and a useful perspective, but even if taken at face value it completely neglects other important things like the rules for making policy and their actual content. Of course, the face value of big vs small has become a mask for something else.

But if you've spent the time since your teens to come to the opposite conclusion in spite of everything going on around, then I suspect there will be very little I can say to you that will make sense to you.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#269

Post by grosswait »

FiberBundle wrote: post #210
boppo1 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but lots of republicans vote for them actually hoping for smaller less interventionary government, believe it or not. The voters that give them power do not view it as that euphemism. It's a fairy tale, but they do believe/hope for it.

Most of these republicans/libertarians only want the government to leave them alone. They don't care when a company they aren't affiliated with is regulated. You can see Marc Andreesen celebrating the government's decision on Anthropic. Similarly, when Silicon Valley Bank went bankrupt, libertarians such as David Sacks were loudly calling for government bailouts. It's just hypocrisy all the way up.

The label of libertarian is thought of as a binary by non-libertarians, leading to this perception of hypocrisy, but that is not the way actual libertarians think with the exception of a tiny minority. Libertarianism is a spectrum, just as any other political affiliation or belief system.

This idea that if some group isn’t all reading from the same sheet of music you imagine they should be reading from means they are hypocrites is just wrong.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#270

Post by graemep »

simonask wrote: post #211
flanked-evergl wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> You can already see that one of the biggest problems in Western Europe is that the liberal establishment itself refuse to hold non-westerners to account to western laws because they feel that it would be unfair to enforce one people's laws on another people. Tell me you've never actually been to Western Europe without telling me... This is so profoundly disconnected from reality that I don't know where to even begi…

> But thank you for confirming my hypothesis in another comment that you are indeed inspired by neo-fascist thought.

A look at their comment history would do that!

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