There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing • Hacker News Board

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#451

Post by arcatech » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:35 PM UTC

ffsm8 wrote: post #438

arcatech wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You either have lost touch with reality so far to be unable to understand what "oppressed" means or you're just parotting someone else who suffers from that affliction. This 100% applies to you. If you can’t see ICE actions as oppressive, you’ve definitely lost touch with reality.

ICE is just enforcing law. Also they're enforcing the law regardless of the skim color. There are plenty of white people which have been removed from the USA by ICE, consequently invalidating the previous thesis of it being about white/straight people. Complete brainrot...

> ICE is just enforcing law.

"This changed in June 2025, just weeks after White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller, reportedly frustrated with the slow increase in ICE arrests, called the head of every ICE Field Office into a room in Washington, DC and ordered them to “just go out there and arrest illegal aliens.” Following this meeting, the Trump administration launched its first splashy raid of an American city, sending hundreds of agents into Los Angeles and sparking fiery confrontations between protestors and federal agents." [0]

That's what you're talking about when you say "just enforcing the law"?

> Also they're enforcing the law regardless of the skim color.

"Publicly available ICE and research datasets show clear shifts in who is being arrested and detained—large growth in interior arrests and detention of people without U.S. criminal convictions and major variation across states—but they do not provide a consistent, complete public breakdown of ICE arrests and detention by race and nationality at the county level, so any precise county-level racial or national origin tallies are not available from the cited public sources." [1]

So how do you know that? Are you just guessing? You're accusing me of the exact thing you're doing. Honestly it sounds to me like you're the one suffering from some serious brainrot.

[0]: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/ice-arrest-s...

[1]: https://factually.co/fact-checks/justice/ice-arrests-detenti...

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#452

Post by flanked-evergl » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:38 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #264

flanked-evergl wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The only people who didn't vote along ethnic lines were westerners in the past 40 to 80 or so years, and that is rapidly changing and will almost entirely disappear in less than 50 years. Lots of countries (including many western countries) have some ethnic parties. That does not mean people will vote for their ethnic groups party - in general most will not. > This is why rapists and murderers get lighter sentences…

> Lots of countries (including many western countries) have some ethnic parties. That does not mean people will vote for their ethnic groups party - in general most will not.

You can vote among ethnic lines without voting for an explicitly ethnic party, which is why Muslims almost invariably vote for leftists even though they are significantly more socially conservative than the most right-wing conservatives, but you know this, you just pretend that you don't know this. This is your SOP.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#453

Post by jacker39 » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

slopinthebag wrote: post #448

jacker38 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has a good government. It's extremely middle of the road due to Mandatory voting attendance and preferential voting. It's very much wisdom of the crowd. It's a good system and the results across the board from wealth inequality, GDP per capita, human development pretty much speak for themselves. it basically forces a really centrist approach because everyone preferences all of the candidates you never want…

The Australian government enforced assimilation policies that systematically removed Aboriginal children from their families. The Australian Human Rights Commission concluded that this state-sanctioned policy constituted an act of genocide. During early colonization, government troops and police forces were directly involved in the planned and calculated mass slaughter of Indigenous communities. Archival records freq…

Mandatory voting is worthy of praise, some of the stuff you mentioned proves my point. Aboriginals are now part of that mandatory voting and as such the government bends over backwards to try and meet their needs while balancing them with the needs of others.

You are moving the goalposts, you asked to name a good government and I gave you one. On a spectrum from good to bad Australia is good.

If you ask to see a good horse and I show you one that can run at 30kmph, you can't in good faith complain that it requires oxygen and sometimes poops. It's not a bad horse because it can't fly.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#454

Post by skydhash » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:46 PM UTC

flyingcircus3 wrote: post #442

skydhash wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And now that they have the tedium wrangled, they are freed from all of these arguments that start: we can't do that because it would take forever. I'm strongly skeptical of this argument, as there's only a few things you can not build a rough version and get something to ideate upon. Even with 3d games you can do design with blocks and buy models to have something to pinpoint the design.

This is still an incomplete model, in my opinion. You're still holding up what is possible as a non ai assisted developer as equal to the assisted one in the abstract, before adding in real world things like tedium, boredom, distraction, the ephemeral nature of novelty, frustration, and everything else that has derailed human software development, but inference engines are perfectly impervious to. I can give you a co…

I do get your point about speeds and ease of producing working code. This kind of quick win can be a good example of AI assisted tooling. But I don't generate scripts that way as I prefer to have composable blocks that I can reuse later. AI is not great at reusable code.

Another things I noticed with AI assisted programming is the one track thinking. Someone has an idea, generate a working sample and then it becomes like a sunk-cost fallacy where they don't envision any other implementation choice or design. It's about adding more feature without taking a step back and assessing the overall goal of the project and if that feature is really needed.

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry has said it best:

  “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”

This kind of cohesiveness is often missed in projects that are AI assisted because there's no refinement step. The product and the efforts are not tempered by real world usage.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#455

Post by derangedHorse » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:49 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #373

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can control government more than I can control Google or Anthropic How true is this really? With the government, you can vote in various elections, or contact your representatives, and when it comes to important issues that will do exactly squat. You can also buy politicians or legislation, or run yourself, if you have the wealth and connections to do so. With corporations, you can vote with your dollars, which a…

1 small guy changing stuff is basically impossible. But 100 million small folk sufficiently annoyed with something changes a government (for better and for worse), whilst having basically zero influence over a corporation (they're not the customer, they don't have enough buying power for a hostile takeover, they certainly don't have the wherewithal to destroy them by launching a competitor... which they probably don'…

> But 100 million small folk sufficiently annoyed with something changes a government (for better and for worse), whilst having basically zero influence over a corporation

They don't have influence because you designed them to be so. You said they're not the customer and implied they have no influence over customers.

Your argument says 100 million small folk in the same government jurisdiction have more government say vs 100 million small folk have in a company they have nothing to do with. That seems clear.

The inverse relation could also be said though. 100 million small folk in different government jurisdictions have less say in a government they have nothing to do with than 100 million customers of the same company do with a corporation.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#456

Post by rsync » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:52 PM UTC

rustcleaner wrote: post #130

simianwords wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree and this other side of excessive scepticism people are ruining it for everyone else. They are a big distraction. They keep saying things like: - Anthropic is just doing this for marketing stunt - AI is like NFT's - circular deals - the bubble will burst anytime soon - the hype bro's are propping up the stock market so that they can exit quick like grifters (I just made the last one up to force terminolo…

>This is really distracting because the main problem here is that AI is getting too powerful to be just handed out to normal people like us. We need a Second Amendment for AI: the right to keep and bear strong AI shall not be infringed. This safety handwringing is going to solidify the state's monopolies over its subjec... err citizens. The state is the farmer, and we are the cows.

"We need a Second Amendment for AI: the right to keep and bear strong AI shall not be infringed."

It is already robustly protected by the first amendment.

If I had legal possession of the fable source repository, etc., and printed it on paper, it would be legal for me to possess and distribute, discuss, annotate, etc.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#457

Post by DonHopkins » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:55 PM UTC

rustcleaner wrote: post #148

temporaryacc2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety handwringing? Mythos found 1000 zero days in a few weeks - if I had asked your thoughts on this a few years ago, I'm sure it would've been "that is a super-weapon". Plus, scaling laws are impossible to deny: More compute = more intelligence. AI is going to completely redefine the role of human cognitive ability - if you think this is about "state monopoly", you're really thinking too small.

I want that intelligence in my living room working for me. I do not think Dario, Altman, or the state should get a monopoly on it.

Yes, you've already told us you're the one who wants to make racist poetry.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#458

Post by rsync » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 6:56 PM UTC

temporaryacc2 wrote: post #142

rustcleaner wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is really distracting because the main problem here is that AI is getting too powerful to be just handed out to normal people like us. We need a Second Amendment for AI: the right to keep and bear strong AI shall not be infringed. This safety handwringing is going to solidify the state's monopolies over its subjec... err citizens. The state is the farmer, and we are the cows.

Safety handwringing? Mythos found 1000 zero days in a few weeks - if I had asked your thoughts on this a few years ago, I'm sure it would've been "that is a super-weapon". Plus, scaling laws are impossible to deny: More compute = more intelligence. AI is going to completely redefine the role of human cognitive ability - if you think this is about "state monopoly", you're really thinking too small.

"Mythos found 1000 zero days in a few weeks - if I had asked your thoughts on this a few years ago, I'm sure it would've been "that is a super-weapon"."

No, my take would have been that a very strong new move had been made in a long-standing, classical arms race.

Since I rather like stable equilibria in areas like this, my thoughts would have been that white hats need to catch up immediately to reestablish the stalemate ... which was probably the course we were on, prior to today.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#459

Post by rsync » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 7:00 PM UTC

solenoid0937 wrote: post #344

boppo1 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I want that 'super weapon' in everyone's hands. Better than the hands of a few. Same thing as literacy. I believe in the power of the do-gooders to overwhelm the do-badders.

This is the worst possible take. Responsible disclosure shouldn't be a thing? Defenders shouldn't have the chance to frontrun?

I disagree.

See above where I frame this as a classical arms race and the equilibria (stalemate) between white/black hats is a very safe and stable place to be.

You and I don't get to choose who the white hats are and those actors could change dramatically as US administrations change, etc.

It's better to rapidly reestablish a new stalemate ... and I say that as someone who has spent the last six months rapidly triaging vulnerabilities and newly discovered attack surface in an attempt to safeguard the livelihoods of everyone who depends on my business.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#460

Post by flyingcircus3 » Sat, Jun 13, 2026, 7:02 PM UTC

skydhash wrote: post #454

flyingcircus3 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still an incomplete model, in my opinion. You're still holding up what is possible as a non ai assisted developer as equal to the assisted one in the abstract, before adding in real world things like tedium, boredom, distraction, the ephemeral nature of novelty, frustration, and everything else that has derailed human software development, but inference engines are perfectly impervious to. I can give you a co…

I do get your point about speeds and ease of producing working code. This kind of quick win can be a good example of AI assisted tooling. But I don't generate scripts that way as I prefer to have composable blocks that I can reuse later. AI is not great at reusable code. Another things I noticed with AI assisted programming is the one track thinking. Someone has an idea, generate a working sample and then it becomes…

But what about compositions of your reusable blocks an order of magnitude larger than you were ordinarily willing to manually compose? A lot of this misnaming Im circling around comes down to demanding that the ai user must be giving up their agency. Whatever you can name as a good practice you don't think an AI agent is a capable of employing on its own, I can retort that a human can demand the agent employ it, along with all of its other capabilities that outstrip the human typist.