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The computer science degree isn’t dead

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Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#151

Post by DiggyJohnson »

anal_reactor wrote: post #33
ehnto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a much smaller extent due to where I live, I noticed this too. From merely the fact that I had a (local economy relative) high paying software job and that I could "make stuff happen" for people with capital or people in the "boys club", I was introduced to an entirely different layer of the city I had no idea about. I noticed how effortlessly the signals transfer and how it all feels very meritocratic, you don't…

Honestly I do the reverse of that. I dress like shit and when introducing myself I specifically use the word "immigrant" rather than "expat" because signalling high social position attracts people who want something from me but don't offer anything in return.

I don’t see how this isn’t a massive net negative to you personally other than avoiding occasional odd conversation. You can have genuine conversations both personally and professionally with all sorts of people even if you don’t “dress like shit”. The expat versus immigrant thing is interesting but I assume most can see through that. Sorry to sound critical not really my intention but this is a very interesting approach. It makes the most sense if you’re already set in a great gig or already made your money, no?

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#152

Post by DiggyJohnson »

anal_reactor wrote: post #137
yieldcrv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to this extreme but most people around me don’t know what I do for money or explore in unallocated time I’m fashionable and have a nice place but nothing says “software engineer that earns more than most doctors” People that wake up next to me think I earn about 1/3rd to 1/5th of what I earn, I don’t correct them But at the same time I do want just a little bit of the hypergamy. Unfortunately, broadcasting to tha…

I'm gay so I have easy access to sex and TBH I don't really have much sex, almost nothing at all, because sex with most people just isn't pleasant. I cannot derive pleasure from it if there's no connection, and "wow I love your car" isn't connection.

As a straight male that does well with dating and relationships I am quietly fascinated by this aspect of gay culture and relationships. It changes so many dynamics.

Thankful for the group of guys at our neighborhood bar where we play gays vs straights pool and rib about this stuff. Lol, just wanted to share that anecdote tbh

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#153

Post by jdw64 »

01284a7e wrote: post #150
jdw64 wrote: post #88

Learning can be done without a degree, but building connections and securing funding is difficult without one. A degree simplifies the cognitive resources needed to gain trust. Normally, gaining trust requires a lot of time. As a freelancer, it took me two years of very low-income work and repeatedly taking small jobs before I got my first real contract, simply because I didn't have a good degree. But if you have a d…

Becoming a professional software engineer without a Comp Sci (or overlapping engineering degree) was a bad idea for the reasons you mention. I made it 15 years on mostly willpower earning millions of dollars, but never worked for a FAANG in any capacity, was unemployed (and even homeless) for different stints starting out, and to this day still get asked why I don't have a CS or engineering degree. And a Haiku-powere…

I respect you. To be honest, I still haven't found my footing. Most of what I earned was squandered paying off debts from being scammed, and my work is irregular. And as you said, the game is always changing, the rules keep shifting. I feel anxious, but reading the words of a senior like you makes me feel better.

I lived in a 3 pyeong (about 100 sq ft) space for three years (I wasn't homeless, so I had it better than you). Still, I'm grateful that now I have a small 8 pyeong (about 260 sq ft) space. Thank you for sharing your experiences and emotions.

I want to succeed through willpower, just like you. As you know, most of my coding is done better by AI. Unless it's large scale programming, the work that comes to people like us is usually small scale, handled at the level of specific frameworks.

Nevertheless, I still believe there is a place for me somewhere (though that might be self hypnosis).

Thanks for the comment

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#154

Post by varjag »

mc32 wrote: post #121
anal_reactor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ain't nobody calling seasonal minimum-wage workers "expats".

True, but I'm talking about native English speakers. Those people likely have their own terminology in their own language to describe themselves. Also an ex-patriate is typically in the professional class. So those "English" teachers who teach in Japan, etc., may think of themselves as ex-pats or try to frequent "ex-pat" hangouts but they aren't necessarily because of two things: one, they have not been working at th…

Expat is an Anglo work migrant, they insist on the distinction as it's in their titular language.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#155

Post by mc32 »

anal_reactor wrote: post #138
mc32 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm talking about native English speakers. Those people likely have their own terminology in their own language to describe themselves. Also an ex-patriate is typically in the professional class. So those "English" teachers who teach in Japan, etc., may think of themselves as ex-pats or try to frequent "ex-pat" hangouts but they aren't necessarily because of two things: one, they have not been working at th…

"expat" is rich, "immigrant" is poor. People use the word "expat" to signal they're rich, or at least they want to be. Here, your theory goes out of the window.

Someone from the US who moves to France for good is not an expat.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#156

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

aroman wrote: post #120
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember OpenClaw? You know why nobody talks about it anymore? Because the project has been vibe coded to death in the span of a few months. Not only will it happen, it's literally happening right now in front of our eyes.

Do you have any evidence that the code quality of OpenClaw is to blame for its decline in popularity? I would say far more likely is that its creator was acqui-hired and Anthropic banned OpenClaw usage. The reality is that AI is both capable of producing sloppy code and capable of cleaning it up, if directed to do so, just like humans. And, just like humans, code quality is very rarely the make or break factor betwee…

In the case of vibe-coded slop like OpenClaw it's not a question of some vague notion of "code quality", it's a case of the software shitting the bed and not working anymore, with no recourse of fixing it. (Neither humans nor LLMs have the context window to analyse and fix tens of millions of lines of code slop.)

> and Anthropic banned OpenClaw usage

If OpenClaw wasn't broken it would just use a standard token API.

But see above - as software it is fundamentally broken and unfixable.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#157

Post by varjag »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #141
zipy124 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does. The classic example I think of is Michael Caine discussing when he wanted to do housing renovations, and before he even submitted designs, he had neighbours and councillors complaining it was going to be "vulgar," "nouveau," and "obscene" simply because of his class. He also talked about the concept of working class people furthering the divide, for example his female family members referring to women…

I go back to the UK every so often for work. Being in EU countries is really weird, because they don't have 'class systems' (like the brits). Deference is given to your professional title, doctor, lawyer etc.

Every nation that was a heart of an empire still has lingering class issues. I've been told by Swedes a non-commoner last name can absolutely open some doors. Though nothing comes close to the UK, which is closer to Japan in this regard than the continental Europe.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#158

Post by Der_Einzige »

anal_reactor wrote: post #33
ehnto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a much smaller extent due to where I live, I noticed this too. From merely the fact that I had a (local economy relative) high paying software job and that I could "make stuff happen" for people with capital or people in the "boys club", I was introduced to an entirely different layer of the city I had no idea about. I noticed how effortlessly the signals transfer and how it all feels very meritocratic, you don't…

Honestly I do the reverse of that. I dress like shit and when introducing myself I specifically use the word "immigrant" rather than "expat" because signalling high social position attracts people who want something from me but don't offer anything in return.

There's a reason it's called being "Anal Retentive"

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#159

Post by mxkopy »

deadbabe wrote: post #147
le-mark wrote: post #2

> The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently placed unemployment for recent CS graduates in the United States at 6.1 percent, with computer engineering graduates at 7.5 percent. Compared to philosophy majors at 3.2 percent and art history graduates at 3.0 percent, those figures look alarming. Alarming doesn’t begin to describe it. This is an existential crises for our industry. The situation for entry level has be…

I had a frank conversation with a hiring manager about it. What he said was even if we hire juniors, juniors using AI are never going to rise to the level of our current seniors who built decades of experience without AI. So basically, today’s juniors are not worth investing in. Until society really sorts itself out with responsibile AI usage in a way that still develops independent professional skills, there is no p…

I love how the basic expectation of having a job and the life altering circumstance of not having one factors into this not even a little bit

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#160

Post by Der_Einzige »

bArray wrote: post #130

This article tackles the issue from a job opportunity perspective, but a bigger problem is the quality of students completing CS degrees is declining. UC Berkley are seeing it in their STEM departments [1] and I have seen the raw data for other Universities delivering CS degrees that is unpublished. Currently the only method to stop students from cheating is to run strictly controlled paper-based exams, and with smar…

Good good and good.

Less competition for me, and "educators" are being punished HARD for their abrogation of their actual responsibilities, which was to teach and give exams.

All exams should be verbal. The fact that verbal exams are so rare is because teachers/professors are overworked and (outside of AI) underpaid. Too many students, not enough time.

The moment you pull up a powerpoint and start reading off of it, or start assigning homework, you've already failed to implement the traditional liberal arts education that the humanities seems to fawn over so much.

There's ACTUALLY no solution to blooms two sigma problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_2_sigma_problem) except for teachers to fundamentally change their responsibilities. More time needs to be spent being intention to every individual student. If that means we need fewer students in universities, so be it. AI will kill the impenitence for higher education anyway.

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