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The computer science degree isn’t dead

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Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#141

Post by Ylpertnodi »

zipy124 wrote: post #113
BoxOfRain wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do think the class system holds us back as a society in Britain, George Orwell had a lot to say on this subject in England your England and I fear the decline he describes in the 1940s only accelerated through the 20th century and into the 21st. That essay is a good read for anyone interested in the topic, although of course much has happened since it was written. I resented being constantly 'corrected' on t…

It really does. The classic example I think of is Michael Caine discussing when he wanted to do housing renovations, and before he even submitted designs, he had neighbours and councillors complaining it was going to be "vulgar," "nouveau," and "obscene" simply because of his class. He also talked about the concept of working class people furthering the divide, for example his female family members referring to women…

I go back to the UK every so often for work. Being in EU countries is really weird, because they don't have 'class systems' (like the brits).

Deference is given to your professional title, doctor, lawyer etc.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#142

Post by thr0w »

jongjong wrote: post #61
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

Yes 100%. I was born upper middle class. I have a BIT from a global top 50 University. I understood this after working in cryptocurrency sector in Germany. After I left Australia and moved to Europe, I realized after some time that 'the matrix' had demoted me into a lower social class. I had to work harder for less money and had access to fewer opportunities. Then I joined the crypto sector and the people there seeme…

> Nowadays carriages are split between 'normal' and 'quiet'... And the number of quiet carriages seems to have increased over time... It's like there are forces in society which try to prevent people with different experiences from sharing their experiences.

In the USA at least, people in the normal cars aren't "sharing their experiences". They're playing garbage music from their iPhone speakers (technically not allowed - happens anyway), trying to subdue their giggling/crying/screaming children, loudly conversing amongst themselves, etc. It's a zoo.

Not trying to pick apart your post, I liked reading it in general.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#143

Post by SoftTalker »

rockskon wrote: post #10
le-mark wrote: post #2

> The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently placed unemployment for recent CS graduates in the United States at 6.1 percent, with computer engineering graduates at 7.5 percent. Compared to philosophy majors at 3.2 percent and art history graduates at 3.0 percent, those figures look alarming. Alarming doesn’t begin to describe it. This is an existential crises for our industry. The situation for entry level has be…

Oh good lord not that statistic again. Left unstated is what jobs philosophy and art history majors take. There's more computer scientists working in computer science than there are philosophy or art history majors working in philosophy or art history.

Philosophy and history majors are for people who have no idea what they want to do. So a decent job in any field is as good as any other.

CS majors are working towards employment in a specific sector, and aren't likely to accept anything else very readily.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#144

Post by analog31 »

This is reminiscent of my field, physics. As I was finishing my degree in the early 90s, I joined the American Physical Society, and received their magazine, Physics Today. Every month there was an article along the same lines: The physics degree isn't dead.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#145

Post by toast0 »

zarzavat wrote: post #63
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

Most of the value of a CS degree is being able to say that you have a degree truthfully. If you don't have a degree then you just lie and say that you do, which is a moral papercut. Nobody really cares about your education though, they just want their world view to be maintained.

All of my professional jobs have been contingent on background checks and validating (to some degree) the things I put in the record. If I say I have a degree, they call to verify. They called to verify work history, although not being able to reach previous employers wasn't a deal breaker. I don't think just claim you have a degree when you don't works.

If you have a degree from a 'good school', that gets you some credibility by itself, but mostly a 4 year degree says 'this person can commit to doing difficult things without an immediate payoff for around 4 years' which is a valuable thing for employers.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#146

Post by SoftTalker »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #3
le-mark wrote: post #2

> The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently placed unemployment for recent CS graduates in the United States at 6.1 percent, with computer engineering graduates at 7.5 percent. Compared to philosophy majors at 3.2 percent and art history graduates at 3.0 percent, those figures look alarming. Alarming doesn’t begin to describe it. This is an existential crises for our industry. The situation for entry level has be…

I think we're going to see a big scramble to pick up the pieces in a few years when a bunch of vibe-slopped houses of cards come crashing down. I imagine it will be like the demand for COBOL developers but on a much more massive scale.

And since big-name companies will be dealing with this, nobody will get blamed for not seeing this train barreling down the tracks towards them.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#147

Post by deadbabe »

le-mark wrote: post #2

> The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently placed unemployment for recent CS graduates in the United States at 6.1 percent, with computer engineering graduates at 7.5 percent. Compared to philosophy majors at 3.2 percent and art history graduates at 3.0 percent, those figures look alarming. Alarming doesn’t begin to describe it. This is an existential crises for our industry. The situation for entry level has be…

I had a frank conversation with a hiring manager about it.

What he said was even if we hire juniors, juniors using AI are never going to rise to the level of our current seniors who built decades of experience without AI.

So basically, today’s juniors are not worth investing in. Until society really sorts itself out with responsibile AI usage in a way that still develops independent professional skills, there is no point in hiring juniors. They will just be a more expensive version of whatever AI agent they use, which can be used directly by seniors anyway.

Companies today do not have to really worry about who replaces the seniors, that will be a problem for newer companies in 20 years or so. In time a solution will arrive naturally.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#148

Post by christoff12 »

bluGill wrote: post #136
keiferski wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh it depends. I’ve worked at / with a lot of more traditional non-tech companies and you’d be amazed at how a lot of the software looks like Excel circa 1995. I guess they could be using third party software but it seems like often they are just using an ancient thing they built themselves.

That tends not to be written by software people so we can ignore it even though you are correct.

People who write software are software people lol. A lot of stuff is just old.

Accountants and marketers didn't build the legacy tools teams are stuck with.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#149

Post by DiggyJohnson »

ehnto wrote: post #23
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

To a much smaller extent due to where I live, I noticed this too. From merely the fact that I had a (local economy relative) high paying software job and that I could "make stuff happen" for people with capital or people in the "boys club", I was introduced to an entirely different layer of the city I had no idea about. I noticed how effortlessly the signals transfer and how it all feels very meritocratic, you don't…

Just curious what part of the world you live in? Apologies if that seems like prying

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#150

Post by 01284a7e »

jdw64 wrote: post #88

Learning can be done without a degree, but building connections and securing funding is difficult without one. A degree simplifies the cognitive resources needed to gain trust. Normally, gaining trust requires a lot of time. As a freelancer, it took me two years of very low-income work and repeatedly taking small jobs before I got my first real contract, simply because I didn't have a good degree. But if you have a d…

Becoming a professional software engineer without a Comp Sci (or overlapping engineering degree) was a bad idea for the reasons you mention.

I made it 15 years on mostly willpower earning millions of dollars, but never worked for a FAANG in any capacity, was unemployed (and even homeless) for different stints starting out, and to this day still get asked why I don't have a CS or engineering degree.

And a Haiku-powered Claude Code could now probably one-shot most of the stuff I have ever banged my head on as hard as I could to figure out.

I am just reflecting on the past though. What will make you "successful" then won't be what makes you that now.

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