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The computer science degree isn’t dead

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Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#111

Post by BoxOfRain »

zipy124 wrote: post #105
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

This is completely correct. It's the same reason why an MBA or PhD can be valuable if you want to go the management track. In Europe specifically - especially in the UK - the class based system is still alive and kicking and is based on subtle tells such as education, name, accent and more. It's less overt than in say India, but still very much present.

I really do think the class system holds us back as a society in Britain, George Orwell had a lot to say on this subject in England your England and I fear the decline he describes in the 1940s only accelerated through the 20th century and into the 21st. That essay is a good read for anyone interested in the topic, although of course much has happened since it was written.

I resented being constantly 'corrected' on the local accent I was picking up from school as a child, but now I appreciate that an RP or close to RP accent turns down the difficulty slider in certain British interactions.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#112

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

graphime wrote: post #9
antonvs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the line on that attitude? Do you not care about global warming because in your lifetime, you're probably not going to experience an unsurvivable wet bulb temperature where you happen to live?

> Where do you draw the line on that attitude? I draw the line at things that directly impact my net worth. > Do you not care about global warming because you're probably not going to experience an unsurvivable wet bulb temperature where you happen to live in your lifetime? Correct. I don’t care about global warming or climate change.

Your assessment is incorrect.

Climate change will have huge effects on everyone's net worth. The process has already started.

Your failure to understand this will not change how it affects you.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#113

Post by zipy124 »

BoxOfRain wrote: post #111
zipy124 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely correct. It's the same reason why an MBA or PhD can be valuable if you want to go the management track. In Europe specifically - especially in the UK - the class based system is still alive and kicking and is based on subtle tells such as education, name, accent and more. It's less overt than in say India, but still very much present.

I really do think the class system holds us back as a society in Britain, George Orwell had a lot to say on this subject in England your England and I fear the decline he describes in the 1940s only accelerated through the 20th century and into the 21st. That essay is a good read for anyone interested in the topic, although of course much has happened since it was written. I resented being constantly 'corrected' on t…

It really does. The classic example I think of is Michael Caine discussing when he wanted to do housing renovations, and before he even submitted designs, he had neighbours and councillors complaining it was going to be "vulgar," "nouveau," and "obscene" simply because of his class. He also talked about the concept of working class people furthering the divide, for example his female family members referring to women of the correct class as "proper ladies" and putting themselves down.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#114

Post by keiferski »

bluGill wrote: post #94
keiferski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophy major here that went from working in a bakery, to sales at a large apparel printing company, to writing and marketing at startups. I do wonder if CS grads are too often narrowly focused on “tech” companies and not on companies that need software.

Software tends to be complex enough that you need a lot of people and thus a tech company. It rarely makes sense for a company to make their own software that they only use to internally. Many non tech companies makes their own software but it is shipped to customers as part of the product

Eh it depends. I’ve worked at / with a lot of more traditional non-tech companies and you’d be amazed at how a lot of the software looks like Excel circa 1995.

I guess they could be using third party software but it seems like often they are just using an ancient thing they built themselves.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#115

Post by ghaff »

dgellow wrote: post #104
jongjong wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Made me chuckle. I think I know what you mean about "expressing strong emotions" - This is how a lot of Europeans view Americans specifically. I think the Australian version of naivety is more about meritocratic ideas and flat social hierarchies. Australians aren't usually loud or opinionated. European CEOs may not like it if an employee reaches out to them directly. In Australia, the startup CEO usually tries to be…

> In Europe, I get the sense that CEOs believe that they're too important to talk to employees In Switzerland and Germany that's pretty much true, yes. As a contractor I really prefer working with UK and US companies, the communication is as you describe, more friendly and natural, and they are generally more than happy to see someone who wants to take initiatives (in fact it is expected)

It also depends on the company.

I was picking up my buffet dinner at a company event in Europe and the CEO who I somewhat knew was alongside; this was a moderately large company--maybe 10K employees at that point. We went to sit down at a table and the $EUROPEAN_COUNTRY people there were basically "Nah, we'd prefer to speak our own language." So the CEO and I went down to sit at another more welcoming table. (And had a very pleasant discussion about his upcoming family vacation and forwarded him some info.)

Not sure of the point but there are definitely cultural differednces on many dimensions on what you can do and can't do.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#116

Post by 0xpgm »

Hypothetically if LLMs were possible in the early 90s, what would the software ecosystem look like today?

Would it be 80s technology everywhere but widely deployed? Or would things have advanced further - better compilers, more ergonomic languages, better platforms etc? I don't know. But I suspect we'd still have needed people studying computer science to advance the state of the art.

Now looking forward 30-40 years from now, will everything still run on 2020s technologies?

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#118

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

dyauspitr wrote: post #49
JCTheDenthog wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're going to see a big scramble to pick up the pieces in a few years when a bunch of vibe-slopped houses of cards come crashing down. I imagine it will be like the demand for COBOL developers but on a much more massive scale.

You know that’s not going to happen. Most of us are past the denial stage now, come join us…

Remember OpenClaw?

You know why nobody talks about it anymore? Because the project has been vibe coded to death in the span of a few months.

Not only will it happen, it's literally happening right now in front of our eyes.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#119

Post by formerly_proven »

stephbook wrote: post #36
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

Shouldn't a bad job market convince people to get a degree? You only miss a bad job market entry and low salaries, you need every meagre advantage you can get. 100% agree on a degree being a strong signal, by the way.

Not if the baseline assumption is that the value of a degree continues to go down and you could've climbed the ranks of plumbing instead of getting a white collar degree.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#120

Post by aroman »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #118
dyauspitr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that’s not going to happen. Most of us are past the denial stage now, come join us…

Remember OpenClaw? You know why nobody talks about it anymore? Because the project has been vibe coded to death in the span of a few months. Not only will it happen, it's literally happening right now in front of our eyes.

Do you have any evidence that the code quality of OpenClaw is to blame for its decline in popularity?

I would say far more likely is that its creator was acqui-hired and Anthropic banned OpenClaw usage.

The reality is that AI is both capable of producing sloppy code and capable of cleaning it up, if directed to do so, just like humans.

And, just like humans, code quality is very rarely the make or break factor between success and failure in business, much less popularity.

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