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There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

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Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#151

Post by simonask »

holoduke wrote: post #114
simonask wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The average Democracy Index of Western Europe is 8.05 (full democracy), while the US scores 7.65 (flawed democracy, trending downwards). Just below Poland, just above Botswana. You might shrug and say "well pobody's nerfect", but the disparity between the American narrative and the reality is actually quite extreme. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

That index is a product of the institute itself. Funded by non democratic values. Worthless junk / progoganda piece if you ask me.

It’s not perfect, but it’s definitely better than this lazy dismissal.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#152

Post by sajithdilshan »

smooc wrote: post #109

This should be a red herring for Europe (and others using US models). Every non-American company is now at a disadvantage against American companies. The implications can not be overstated.

It indeed is a wake up call. But at the same time the strong data protection laws, copyright and privacy laws make it extremely difficult for a European company to develop a frontier model. Activist lawyers can sue and drag startups for training their model on a news article and the legal expenses would be higher than the engineering costs.

ChatGPT was released 4 years ago and still out of 27 countries in EU, only Mistral based in France has a model closer to a frontiers and IMO EU has already lost the race and still trying to catch up to yesterday models.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#153

Post by simianwords »

rustcleaner wrote: post #148
temporaryacc2 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety handwringing? Mythos found 1000 zero days in a few weeks - if I had asked your thoughts on this a few years ago, I'm sure it would've been "that is a super-weapon". Plus, scaling laws are impossible to deny: More compute = more intelligence. AI is going to completely redefine the role of human cognitive ability - if you think this is about "state monopoly", you're really thinking too small.

I want that intelligence in my living room working for me. I do not think Dario, Altman, or the state should get a monopoly on it.

Ok but you can’t hand wave safety concerns. I agree that they shouldn’t get monopoly over it but what if AI is strong enough to synthesise weapons and help in cyber security?

What’s your answer to it? There are other people who have thought of it and it’s not that simple.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#154

Post by graemep »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #121
rustcleaner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> D takes away guns from the population so they can't effectively fight back against the benefactors Please remind us when Democrats have "taken away guns", and while you're at it when were those small arms last used to fight back against a tyrannical government?

Not in the US, and not addressing whether the governments controlled were tyrannical or not (in many cases the rebels were definitely bad) but there are lots of wars around the world that were started by people with small arms and home made bombs that built up into full scale wars.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#155

Post by latexr »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #90
schrototo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in democracy you do get to say which government you want.

You can pick which of the two possibilities, neither of which is even close to your political views, will oppress you for the next 4 years.

While the USA is famously a two-party system, that’s not true of every democracy.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#156

Post by coldtea »

Guvante wrote: post #71
modeless wrote: post #22

> But this government [...] I'm hearing a lot of this kind of thing. "Oh if only it was a different government". I'm sorry, but when you cry out for government involvement, it's not always going to be coming from the government you personally wanted. This is the whole problem with government involvement! I don't think that message is getting through, but it's the real lesson that should be learned here.

Reductionist "if only the government didn't get involved" doesn't work unless you presume no government is beneficial (it is not since you just recreate all the bad parts of government anyway) You can be critical of the policy of export controls and the meaning of them in modern day but saying it is a problem with the government in general is nonsensical.

>You can be critical of the policy of export controls and the meaning of them in modern day but saying it is a problem with the government in general is nonsensical.

Hardly non-sensical. You just have a different default.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#158

Post by sbmthakur »

dpe82 wrote: post #133
agnosticmantis wrote: post #78

Counterintuitively, this is a huge win for misAnthropic and other closed labs in the US. They can nerf the models, ask for IDs from users and do what it takes to comply with whatever regulation they've been fighting for. Foreign labs releasing open source models won't be able to comply, and as a result open source models will remain stunted at pre-mythos levels or their use will be criminalized. We should look past t…

Why would foreign (relative to the US) models suddenly sit still? There's enormous incentive to improve; surely they'll be able to figure out how just like their American counterparts? We've seen this movie before with crypto export bans in the 90s. The rest of the world caught up and then surpassed the US very quickly - and that was without the enormous financial incentives of AI.

Even without those incentives, the messaging is clear: you don't want your inference to be shut arbitrarily. Export controls are nothing new but a lot of people have underestimated them due to globalization and the general nature of software. This is a good opportunity for entities around the world to get their setup going.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#159

Post by flawn »

holoduke wrote: post #114
simonask wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The average Democracy Index of Western Europe is 8.05 (full democracy), while the US scores 7.65 (flawed democracy, trending downwards). Just below Poland, just above Botswana. You might shrug and say "well pobody's nerfect", but the disparity between the American narrative and the reality is actually quite extreme. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

That index is a product of the institute itself. Funded by non democratic values. Worthless junk / progoganda piece if you ask me.

Then check V-Dem, you might argue they're flawed as well but then I'd suggest you to provide counterexamples for why the US should be considered a functioning democracy, and is not on the way to a fully authoritarian state.

Re: There is a shadow hanging over this Fable thing

#160

Post by graemep »

dns_snek wrote: post #128
slopinthebag wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can reverse it. "If the government gets involved" doesn't work unless you presume government is beneficial (it is not since you just recreate all the bad parts of no government anyway).

> unless you presume government is beneficial That's the constitutional bedrock of our societies. That doesn't mean it's always true but if you denounce that as a legitimate and achievable goal then you don't have a society anymore.

The alternative is worse. No government at all implies anarchy which is worse that all but the very worst governments, and from which IMO some form of government will emerge anyway.
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