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I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

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Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#181

Post by __s »

scottlamb wrote: post #113
taeric wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't layers a form of stateful control?

I think the distinction __s is making is between layer toggles (layer is active between layer key presses, described as stateful) vs layer modifiers (layer is active while layer key is held). And there are definitely reasons to minimize keyboard state. I've been playing around with programmable keyboards (running RMK in my case) with several thumb keys. My thumb was getting fatigued, so I tried using a layer toggle t…

for more info on thumb fatigue: https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/thumb-ergo/index.html

My issue was tendon overuse in my fingers, so low force switches & column splay worked for me

(splay is where the columns are not aligned, mapping to the fan out of the human hand, see TOTEM https://github.com/GEIGEIGEIST/TOTEM)

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#182

Post by webstrand »

__s wrote: post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

I wish I could remove the insert key, but unlike the caps-lock that no application rebinds, insert does get rebound. I wish there was an OS level control "pressing insert by accident should not turn on mangle-my-text-mode".

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#184

Post by WorldMaker »

Dwedit wrote: post #159

Sleep key is scancode E05F In registry "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout" Create Binary value named "Scancode Map" Put in there: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 3E 00 5F E0 00 00 00 00 That changes scancode E05F (Sleep key) into scancode 3E (F4 key). Then logout or reboot for the change to apply. I actually looked up what would be necessary to do this change without a reboot, an…

A tool to help manage these kinds of rebindings is the Keyboard Manager in PowerToys.

As I recall it uses multiple approaches, so it isn't "just" a straight manager of scancode maps, but that also helps it avoid logout/reboot for the initial change to take place.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#185

Post by ndiddy »

lukan wrote: post #116
ndiddy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They switched the Ctrl/Fn position a year or two ago so people like you would stop complaining. Of course this means that instead you have anybody who's used a thinkpad in the last 30 years complaining about the switch. It's a little better now because they made the keys the same size, so after you switch them in the BIOS you can physically switch the keycaps around.

Every keyboard I used so far - and those were many, many, many - have the ctrl in the bottom left. Lenovo is the only weird excemption I experienced. So I believe people like me are the vast majority and you should maybe rather blame them, for introducing this weirdness in the first place.

> Lenovo is the only weird excemption I experienced.

Apple has put the Fn key to the left of Ctrl since they added Fn to their laptops in 1998.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#186

Post by setopt »

rgoulter wrote: post #104
__s wrote: post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

> I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options The best part of these kinds of keyboards is they provide each thumb two keys each. That allows for the keyboards to be much more expressive, as well as not needing the pinky for keys like backspace/enter/esc.

> not needing the pinky for keys like backspace/enter/esc.

Probably not so efficient in terms of WPM, but after my previous issues with RSI, I somehow ended up pressing those keys with my middle fingers instead of my pinkie. Usually multiple fingers hit the key simultaneously, either long finger + ring finger or long finger + index finger.

Requires more hand movement but certainly more comfortable.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#187

Post by mhandley »

mhandley wrote: post #71
CarVac wrote: post #8

Speaking of "natural scrolling" it is horrible because most scrolling is downward and "natural" is an ergonomically inferior pushing action instead of pulling. It's only natural on the actual display itself. Anothe affront to nature by Apple, along with killing the headphone jack.

It's not just the ergonomics - in my head I'm moving the cursor (and with it my view) down through the document, not moving the document up. Which is mentally different from a touchscreen, though I expect people who grew up with touchscreens never built that mental association that we're moving the cursor. Fortunately Apple allows be to change it.

Thinking about it some more, it really is about consistency regarding the cursor. On my trackpad, not in "natural scrolling" mode, I get this:

  - One finger down moves the cursor down through the text.
  - Two fingers down moves the cursor down through the text (moving the text up)
  - Thumb-click plus one finger down moves the cursor down through the text (and selects).
in Natural Scrolling you get:

  - One finger down moves the cursor down through the text.
  - Two fingers down moves the cursor up through the text (moving the text down)
  - Thumb-click plus one finger down moves the cursor down through the text and selects.
If you start scrolling with two fingers and release one, the cursor reverses direction! This inconsistency just really feels wrong to me, but I guess you can get used to anything.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#188

Post by c-hendricks »

webstrand wrote: post #180
c-hendricks wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played a lot of games and other than quick save, can't think of any that have used the F-row.

MMORPGs and games that have many different mechanics might be more prone to it, versus first-person controlled games? In my experience its pretty common.

Most likely, I haven't played many MMOs. Having to go from WASD to the function row is pretty clumsy for me, especially when there's ~20 extra keys around WASD without having to move a hand.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#190

Post by tbyehl »

jerf wrote: post #64
__s wrote: post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

"I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode" You want some real fun, try the Microsoft Surface keyboard. Maybe they've fixed in a very recent version, but given how long the product line has had this problem, probably not. It has a stateful Fn key . That's right, a Fn key that works like capslock . There is no conceivable w…

> While I'm bitching, what is the deal with keyboards on new laptops needing special drivers?

The only laptops I've encountered with this are... Microsoft's. Somehow the Surface folks can't get enough of their critical drivers in-box with Windows to be able to re-install from stock media.

(IIRC it goes even deeper with USB drivers missing, but I gave up on Surface Laptops a few year ago)

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