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I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

danq.me

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Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#151

The F1-F12 keys have always felt like one of those things where… it’s like, people who enjoy oldschool interfaces seem very attached to. And I love the terminal, so I feel like I ought to have strong opinions in their favor. But the only time I need to use them is… what is it, ctrl-alt-F3 to switch to a console if my window manager has fallen apart. This is a very rare event, so I can’t find any strong feeling here.…

Alt-F4 is the canonical shortcut for closing a window F2 is the canonical key for renaming F5 is refresh F11 is fullscreen F1 is for help but admittedly I don't use that a lot I can't think of a very frequent, standard use for the other keys. So I can't really disagree with having so many F keys being kinda unnecessary. But I'm happy to have them and they never bothered me.

F12 is Save As. Yes I have to use MS Office at work.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#152
Important keyboard design note the author would agree with but didn't point out: Function keys are supposed to be divided into groups of four with a distinct gap between each group. This makes it much easier for the wayward touch-typist to find things.

BTW I've gone back to wired keyboard because most companies assume people who prefer wireless prefer as many unnecessary bells and whistles as possible to the point of compromising the design. There is no concept of some features being better than others, just a black/white everything/nothing.

Also refer to automobiles, tv's, all modern design...

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#153
post #8

Speaking of "natural scrolling" it is horrible because most scrolling is downward and "natural" is an ergonomically inferior pushing action instead of pulling. It's only natural on the actual display itself. Anothe affront to nature by Apple, along with killing the headphone jack.

Apple is hardly the first to have used "natural" scrolling.

While I have no idea who was, I do know that John Ousterhout's text editor and terminal emulators Mx and Tx used "natural scrolling", made pre-1989. Their scroll mechanism is shift + left/right click then drag, using "natural scrolling", e.g. push mouse up to scroll down. Left click scrolls normally, right click scrolls quickly.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#154

What I hate about keyboards is that you have to select your key layout when you setup your OS. Why isn't that information simply accessible over the USB protocol? Yes, I know why, because they didn't think of it.

No, it's because a lot of the time you want to use a different keyboard layout. For instance with international keyboards.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#155
post #144
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every keyboard I used so far - and those were many, many, many - have the ctrl in the bottom left. Lenovo is the only weird excemption I experienced. So I believe people like me are the vast majority and you should maybe rather blame them, for introducing this weirdness in the first place.

Lenovo is the “weird exception” because thinkpads have always had the Fn key on the bottom left. Just like they still keep the track point. I would presume most people buying a thinkpad don’t want to buy “the vast majority” of laptops.

No. I bought it especially, because it has a replacable battery, which is not a factor for the vast majority I believe.

If that key would not have been switchable I would have returned it, though ..

But seriously. Who would want that excemption, unless they have already been trained in the non standard way?

Ctrl key I have to use very often. Bottom left is easy to find, even blind.

But the fn Key? Only needed at very rare occasions, so why waste the special ergonomic place for it?

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the distinction __s is making is between layer toggles (layer is active between layer key presses, described as stateful) vs layer modifiers (layer is active while layer key is held). And there are definitely reasons to minimize keyboard state. I've been playing around with programmable keyboards (running RMK in my case) with several thumb keys. My thumb was getting fatigued, so I tried using a layer toggle t…

can you please expand on your thoughs on the thumb cluster? (I have a dactly I kind of finished wiring, but didn't get around to programming it yet)

I'm typing on a SoflePLUS2 right now. It's based on the Sofle v2 design, which is described as having a 5-key thumb arc per side. But I try to limit thumb use to the innermost 2 or 3 keys per side after experiencing fatigue. I use the outermost 2 or 3 as opposite-hand modifiers (ctrl, opt, cmd) and try to pull my whole arm in to use them with the same-column finger, instead of treating them as a thumb key that requires folding my thumb underneath my palm as I keep my hand in the home position.

It seems like many in the ergo keyboard crowd are trying to never move their hands from the home position, and I think that might be a mistake. Use a variety of muscles, avoid unnatural positions. More broadly, my understanding is that the research behind using a tented/splayed split keyboard is solid (better shoulder through wrist positioning) but there's nothing really but anecdotal experience supporting the idea that vastly reduced key counts (and associated need for complex layer setups) or column-staggered layouts reduce pain and plenty of confounders (going from unibody to split simultaneously, maybe switching from QWERTY at the same time too, reducing speed, often learning decent form for the first time, often regression to the mean because people switch when they are having problems).

My previous keyboard was a split with traditional row stagger (Goldtouch) that Google's ergo team advised me to try forever ago. I switched recently because I wasn't liking the mushy feel of the keys, that the two "space bars" weren't distinguishable, that it doesn't have an integrated pointing device, and that after such long use I'd worn down the homing indicator on the f/j keys and was struggling to orient my hands correctly. But row-staggered layout was fine IMHO. Made it easier to learn, to switch between it and other keyboards when I had to, and to hit keys further from the home position.

Here's something from Kinesis, who have been designing split ergonomic keyboards for a long time: https://kinesis-ergo.com/wp-content/uploads/Advantage360-ZMK... search for "If your thumbs are sensitive" and "Guidelines for using your thumbs". And note that while they have keys under z/x/c they do not describe them as thumb keys.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#158
post #64
post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

"I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode" You want some real fun, try the Microsoft Surface keyboard. Maybe they've fixed in a very recent version, but given how long the product line has had this problem, probably not. It has a stateful Fn key . That's right, a Fn key that works like capslock . There is no conceivable w…

I agree about the special keys. There are so many HID usages on the Consumer page for keyboards covering so many things, from application launchers to extra editing functions, and it is absurd how often almost none of them are used in favour of vendor-private usage numbers that then require vendor-specific software support.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#159
Sleep key is scancode E05F

In registry "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout"

Create Binary value named "Scancode Map"

Put in there: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 3E 00 5F E0 00 00 00 00

That changes scancode E05F (Sleep key) into scancode 3E (F4 key).

Then logout or reboot for the change to apply. I actually looked up what would be necessary to do this change without a reboot, and it turns out that only WinLogon.exe is allowed to make the Scancode Map change.

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