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I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

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Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#101

Post by bee_rider »

roelschroeven wrote: post #86
bee_rider wrote: post #72

The F1-F12 keys have always felt like one of those things where… it’s like, people who enjoy oldschool interfaces seem very attached to. And I love the terminal, so I feel like I ought to have strong opinions in their favor. But the only time I need to use them is… what is it, ctrl-alt-F3 to switch to a console if my window manager has fallen apart. This is a very rare event, so I can’t find any strong feeling here.…

In addition to sibling replies, function keys are very useful in debuggers (to step in/over, set breakpoints, ...). And lots of other things that don't immediately come to mind. I'm old enough to remember WordPerfect on DOS, with a paper template to put over the function keys on your keyboard as a little cheat sheet for all their functions.

Yeah, when I’ve had to break down and reach for a debugger, it was gdb. I’m sure there are shortcuts but since it was a rare event, I just typed “step” and “continue” like a caveman, haha.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#102

Post by delecti »

taeric wrote: post #73
__s wrote: post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

Aren't layers a form of stateful control?

Caps Lock is stateful control. The function of the keys changes depending on the internal state of the system. The "Fn" key on the keyboard in the article is also stateful (ish), and defaults to treating the F row as the special macros, rather than just F1-12.

Keyboard layers work more like the Shift key.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#103

Post by orthoxerox »

jakub_g wrote: post #65

Talking the "Sleep" button... Back in 2000s, there were some popular cheap external keyboards with three extra buttons between the delete/end/pgdown row, and the arrows. The first of those buttons was "power off" sitting just below "Delete". Example: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hendry/330827330 It was pure madness because it was guaranteed to push this button by accident on a daily basis. I can't imagine someone us…

We had keyboards like this in several labs in the uni! Except they were even worse, and these three keys were shaped like regular keys. When I accidentally powered down my PC the third time in a row, losing all progress on my assignment, I popped the key out of the keyboard.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#104

Post by rgoulter »

__s wrote: post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

> I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options

The best part of these kinds of keyboards is they provide each thumb two keys each.

That allows for the keyboards to be much more expressive, as well as not needing the pinky for keys like backspace/enter/esc.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#105

Post by Scoundreller »

fwip wrote: post #67
voidUpdate wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've ever owned any headphones with a long enough cable to plug into my tv when I'm sitting at a comfortable viewing position

Thankfully, you can buy a cable extender for like $2, because it's a standard that has been around for 150 years. Example: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=648

Just be aware of your surroundings if you do this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APJhnjaHql0

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#106

Post by tremon »

taeric wrote: post #73
__s wrote: post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

Aren't layers a form of stateful control?

Possibly, depending on how they're activated. If the layer is only activated while another key is pressed, that's not stateful (i.e. no different from yet another Fn key). I'd say that layer toggles and one-shot key modifiers are stateful control, yes.

Personally, I've found that I prefer layer shift keys over layer toggles. It takes more mental effort to track in which layer I'm working than to hold a key while pressing another. The only persistent layer toggles I use is to switch the entire keyset to a different layout (qwerty vs workman vs single-handed, or switch the right half to numpad).

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#107

Post by lstodd »

c-hendricks wrote: post #89
webstrand wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games often bind skills or other game mechanics to the function keys. Anecdotally, I switched from `ctrl+shift+i` to F12 for opening the web inspector due to many websites capturing that keybinding for their own purpose (claude and code editors) if I didn't have a function row I'd have to find an even more arcane hotkey. They're just a nice set of purpose-undefined keys that you or the application can bind to useful…

I've played a lot of games and other than quick save, can't think of any that have used the F-row.

Pretty much required in Eve Online.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#108

Post by masfuerte »

3form wrote: post #68

Something that I'm missing from both the article and the comments - I would remap the sleep button to F4 at OS level. Repeat analogous steps for other keys. Granted, you'll lose these functions, and likely switching to another keyboard will drive you mad, but I guess this is a good stopgap software based solution.

Another option (he's using Windows) is "change what the power buttons do" in Control Panel to make the sleep button into a no-op.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#109

Post by CarVac »

mhandley wrote: post #71
CarVac wrote: post #8

Speaking of "natural scrolling" it is horrible because most scrolling is downward and "natural" is an ergonomically inferior pushing action instead of pulling. It's only natural on the actual display itself. Anothe affront to nature by Apple, along with killing the headphone jack.

It's not just the ergonomics - in my head I'm moving the cursor (and with it my view) down through the document, not moving the document up. Which is mentally different from a touchscreen, though I expect people who grew up with touchscreens never built that mental association that we're moving the cursor. Fortunately Apple allows be to change it.

I always viewed the classic scroll method as a mirror to what happens on screen.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#110

Post by delecti »

archargelod wrote: post #56
Innittech wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's just doing what's on the agenda, plugging the analog hole. Your TV doesn't have a headphone jack any more either. TVs haven't had this in decades.

My TV does have an audio jack. It's a cheap dumb TV. And almost all of my electronic devices have a 3.5 mm jack. You won't find it in top flagship models, but plenty of budget devices still have it.

I don't know what the line is for "flagship" is, but my $2k 4k smart TV (which isn't connected to the internet) also has a 1/8" jack.
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