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APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

teenage.engineering

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Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#161

Post by alnwlsn »

xrd wrote: post #49

Has anyone tried to 3d print vinyl?

Audio file to gcode is not difficult. Here's a record laser cut into a tortilla [0].

I once tried to mill one out of MDF on a CNC machine [1]. It didn't sound very good, but better than I expected.

3D printing one seems very difficult, since 3D printers build walls instead of cut grooves. Maybe you could play it if you had some kind of bifurcated needle? Anyways, it's enough of a joke that it probably wouldn't work well that it was a Prusa April fools joke [2].

A better printer, maybe a resin one, can do it [3].

0 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdzCv_9eaoM

1 - https://hackaday.com/2022/06/17/wooden-you-like-to-hear-a-cn...

2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV1egpbrg90

3 - https://hackaday.com/2012/12/21/3d-printing-records/

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#162

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

brookst wrote: post #136
taylodl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most music today is digitally recorded, digitally mixed, and digitally mastered. It's at the end they distribute it on vinyl and sell it for a fortune. They're literally fleecing people. Now I will tell you digital is far superior to analog BUT - the way music is recorded and mixed today takes all the soul out of music. Rigidly fixing to "the grid" makes it so music can't breathe. Drums are programmed. So much precis…

You’ve mixed up a few different stages as well as the reason some people prefer vinyl. There’s composition, where music is written. A drum track may be a boring repetitive loop quantized to 4/4 beat positions, or it may have fills or polyrhythm or free time or who knows what. There’s performance, which may be a sequencer just outputting notes at the right time or may be a human drummer of varying skill, imparting slo…

There is another reason some people prefer vinyl, which is that they often used a different master than later releases. The medium, be it AAC, vinyl or CD really doesn't matter as much as what master has been used. There are CD pressings that don't sound as good as the vinyl, because they used a different master tape. A lot of this was the result of the loudness wars and the resulting reduced dynamic range, or even downright clipping (eg RHCP).

Some albums you cannot get digitally with the best sounding master version.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#163

Post by ufocia »

iainctduncan wrote: post #154

This is fantastic. There is a shortage of places that can press vinyl, making it very difficult to start an indy label. Vinyl (believe it or not) is going up in sales, many young people want to own a physical product of music, even if they don't have turntables. It's a way to support acts. Selling vinyl is thus one of the ways indy acts and labels can actually make money. Is there a performative and marketing element…

You could just sell old vinyl with new labels and sleeves and they would be none the wiser.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#164

Post by ufocia »

lebuffon wrote: post #160
gwbas1c wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does it buffer audio? The page says DAW integration, but I assume the inputs are analog. IE, I assume the playback is on the computer and uses whatever DAC the engineer has set up. > To cut a disk you need to pack the grooves as close as possible. In the analog, computer-free world, that was done by hand and typically had about 15-20 minutes per side. I've come across records that got close to 30 minutes per si…

Old guy here. I brought a few masters into RCA in Toronto, just before dinosaurs went extinct. At that time they used a Studer A80 (if memory serves) 1/2 track machine, modified, with an extra playback head that was placed before the head stack so it read the music on tape about 500mS before the playback head got it. The extra head sound was fed to the motor controller that controlled the speed of the cutting head fe…

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#165

Post by allears »

iainctduncan wrote: post #154

This is fantastic. There is a shortage of places that can press vinyl, making it very difficult to start an indy label. Vinyl (believe it or not) is going up in sales, many young people want to own a physical product of music, even if they don't have turntables. It's a way to support acts. Selling vinyl is thus one of the ways indy acts and labels can actually make money. Is there a performative and marketing element…

This isn't a press, it's a cutter. It's used to make vinyl masters, which are then used to create a mold for pressing. This device will only make discs slowly, one at a time. You would still need a bunch more machinery to press a quantity of discs. However, a vinyl master, although it has a limited playback life, is the best vinyl sound you're gonna get.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#166

Post by scottyeager »

strogonoff wrote: post #142
brookst wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve mixed up a few different stages as well as the reason some people prefer vinyl. There’s composition, where music is written. A drum track may be a boring repetitive loop quantized to 4/4 beat positions, or it may have fills or polyrhythm or free time or who knows what. There’s performance, which may be a sequencer just outputting notes at the right time or may be a human drummer of varying skill, imparting slo…

What’s your current process for discovering new music?

Community and listener supported radio stations can be a great resource. I discover a lot of music via a local station I discovered by surfing on the FM dial. Most stations offer online streams these days and some even produce video content too (Live at KEXP is one favorite, and NPR's Tiny Desk is in a similar vein). Non corporate coffee shops are usually playing some music selected by the baristas and I found some favorites that way too.

When I find something new, I like to look up live performances from that artist on YouTube. Sometimes people in the comments mention other similar artists or the source that led them to the video. YouTube's algorithm is a bit of a dark and dangerous thing overall, but I do sometimes follow a suggestion for music that I end up loving.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#167

Post by ufocia »

gizajob wrote: post #115
dale_glass wrote: post #108

How does it buffer audio? One thing I didn't realize for a long time is that it turns out that a lot of these machines have a digital stage. To cut a disk you need to pack the grooves as close as possible. But the spiral isn't fixed, it's adjusted dynamically. Quiet sections can be packed close together. That means that before cutting, the machine needs to know how much physical space it needs for the audio it's abou…

It’s great technology for long-term archiving. “Look ahead” to determine optimal groove spacing doesn’t have to be done digitally, even though digital makes this much simpler. I’d guess that musicians and producers using an all-analogue recording / mixing / mastering process where they have zero digital stages to the master tape are very few and far between nowadays. Kevin Shields for one, but he likely has other opt…

Vinyl is not great for archiving. It degrades and is affected by dust.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#168

Post by ufocia »

bayindirh wrote: post #129
PaulHoule wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works and sounds like a good idea but boy do lasers see dust spots and things like that.

I believe they indeed do, but for digitizing rare records, they are much better than their physical counterparts. Considering that we can now remove these pops and clicks way better than we did before, it's a worthy thing to have for preservation purposes: Laser Turntable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable Click and Pop Removal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-LvCRzWCpU

Archival optical media is likely much better than any kind of open groove technology.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#169

Post by dale_glass »

Jgrubb wrote: post #145
dijksterhuis wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bad, according to your definition of what good is. I enjoy all those things you've listed as bad :shrug:

Yes. Not to mention, I have several crates of records that I've had since the 90s. Some of those were taken from my dad collection that he bought new back in the 60s. Those albums still play just fine, despite less than archival care taken. Contrast that with several folders of CDs I still have which have begun to delaminate and are plastic trash now. CDs were largely an invention to allow record companies to resell…

I meant CD quality audio, as in 44.1 KHz/16 bit digital files, not specifically the CD physical medium. It's an old invention and still fulfills every playback need possible, let alone for old audiophiles who long stopped being able to hear the highest frequencies anyway.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#170

Post by vile_wretch »

trumpdong wrote: post #147

> direct drive precision polished tungsten shaft Isn't marketing wonderful. Who cares what the motor shaft is made of? (and why not ordinary steel? tungsten just sounds cooler? they want to reuse it for a lightbulb filament later?)

Tungsten will certainly isolate better than other softer metals. The entire product is centred around embedding vibrations into a physical object. The material that is used to transfer or isolate those vibrations is important especially at signal levels used in lathe cutting.
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