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APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

teenage.engineering

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Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#121

Post by bayindirh »

dale_glass wrote: post #108

How does it buffer audio? One thing I didn't realize for a long time is that it turns out that a lot of these machines have a digital stage. To cut a disk you need to pack the grooves as close as possible. But the spiral isn't fixed, it's adjusted dynamically. Quiet sections can be packed close together. That means that before cutting, the machine needs to know how much physical space it needs for the audio it's abou…

There's digital and there's digital. If you look at some of the technology used for A/D and D/A conversion, it's possible to do it lossless way. I learnt this after I started recording my bass and this is a very deep rabbit hole.

If they are using well refined conversion paths with enough bit depth, that buffer stage will be completely invisible even at the waveform level.

As a person who likes, buys and listens vinyl, I don't care how it's processed to that stage as long as it sounds fine. Note that I don't buy vinyl because of the "sound quality per se", but for the experience of listening it. I like to make time to listen my favorite albums properly, and vinyl is a part of that for some albums. I'm equally fine with audio from a CD or a well encoded lossy codec. I can distinguish between lossy and lossless encoding of the same album, but I don't always have time to appreciate that.

So, some references (This guy has enough knowledge to write his own DSP plugins):

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuecg-5Gvn8

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-MGXDXR4x0

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fmCy686IC8

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#122

Post by avsn »

Originally lathe cuts were used by producers in electronic genres namely jungle/DnB as a way to test yet unreleased tracks on the dance floor. Those records were created in very low numbers and could only survive a handful of plays. As stated here in the comments, producing such records requires a great amount of skill and understanding of the process, as well as understanding the way tracks translate to physical media. TE here again does a great amount of art-washing and Supreme-isation of previously "niche" things for the audience that treats music culture as a costume. A great toy for average Rick Rubin book enjoyer.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#123

Post by bayindirh »

Daub wrote: post #120
gizajob wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great technology for long-term archiving. “Look ahead” to determine optimal groove spacing doesn’t have to be done digitally, even though digital makes this much simpler. I’d guess that musicians and producers using an all-analogue recording / mixing / mastering process where they have zero digital stages to the master tape are very few and far between nowadays. Kevin Shields for one, but he likely has other opt…

> I’s great technology for long-term archiving. Dam right. It’s a medium that a reasonably intelligent individual from any time in future/past history could intuitively understand. Let’s not forget that NASA chose a record to store the digital images it sent with Voyager on precisely that assumption. https://science.nasa.gov/mission/voyager/voyager-golden-reco...

Also it can be "read" non intrusively with a laser-pickup, like a CD, without wearing the medium down.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#124

Post by bayindirh »

avsn wrote: post #122

Originally lathe cuts were used by producers in electronic genres namely jungle/DnB as a way to test yet unreleased tracks on the dance floor. Those records were created in very low numbers and could only survive a handful of plays. As stated here in the comments, producing such records requires a great amount of skill and understanding of the process, as well as understanding the way tracks translate to physical med…

...and here's a great documentary about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

This is a video about Amen Break, read from a wax disc which can't survive more than 5-6 plays.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#125

Post by actionfromafar »

steve1977 wrote: post #79
klodolph wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That took my comment to a much darker place than I anticipated—I think basic marketing is ok, and even if you’re passionate about design, you still should be thinking about the business’s bottom line. But, like, https://teenage.engineering/store/field-desk Or maybe the TP-7 is a better example. They are obviously following the playbook from brands like Supreme. At least in part.

That's basically a bad Eiermann desk ripoff, but about twice as expensive as the original. https://www.richard-lampert.de/en/furniture/eiermann-1/

The Eiermann looks more sturdy at a glance too, since the legs aren't at the corners.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#126

Post by squeedles »

tcbawo wrote: post #55

I always loved the story of the "three-sided" Monty Python record, where the B side had two parallel concentric grooves, causing different tracks to play depending on where the needle was dropped. I always wondered what kind of equipment went into producing it.

When I was a kid, we had a "record producer" board game and the randomizer was a 45rpm record with three concentric grooves. You did a needle drop and it said It's a Hit, It's a Flop, or Break Even.

EDIT- Apparently it was the K-Tel Superstar game

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4521/k-tel-superstar-gam...

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#127

Post by Jgrubb »

dale_glass wrote: post #108

How does it buffer audio? One thing I didn't realize for a long time is that it turns out that a lot of these machines have a digital stage. To cut a disk you need to pack the grooves as close as possible. But the spiral isn't fixed, it's adjusted dynamically. Quiet sections can be packed close together. That means that before cutting, the machine needs to know how much physical space it needs for the audio it's abou…

Vinyl is a terrible technology?? Have you never put on an old record and considered the miracle of it?

70 years ago Miles Davis vibrates some air with his horn, which is translated into electricity by a microphone, which is translated through magnetic tape and eventually back into electricity and then back into vibrations on a disk. 70 years later I can take that disk and turn its vibrations back into electricity that moves the air on my living room. No encoding, no decoding, just air and electricity that my ancestors will be able to replay until the end of time.

That's as close to magic as anything humanity has ever come up with in my opinion.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#128

Post by PaulHoule »

bayindirh wrote: post #123
Daub wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’s great technology for long-term archiving. Dam right. It’s a medium that a reasonably intelligent individual from any time in future/past history could intuitively understand. Let’s not forget that NASA chose a record to store the digital images it sent with Voyager on precisely that assumption. https://science.nasa.gov/mission/voyager/voyager-golden-reco...

Also it can be "read" non intrusively with a laser-pickup, like a CD, without wearing the medium down.

It works and sounds like a good idea but boy do lasers see dust spots and things like that.

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#129

Post by bayindirh »

PaulHoule wrote: post #128
bayindirh wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also it can be "read" non intrusively with a laser-pickup, like a CD, without wearing the medium down.

It works and sounds like a good idea but boy do lasers see dust spots and things like that.

I believe they indeed do, but for digitizing rare records, they are much better than their physical counterparts. Considering that we can now remove these pops and clicks way better than we did before, it's a worthy thing to have for preservation purposes:

Laser Turntable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

Click and Pop Removal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-LvCRzWCpU

Re: APC–2 – A professional record cutter for producing original playback discs

#130

Post by jlarcombe »

dale_glass wrote: post #108

How does it buffer audio? One thing I didn't realize for a long time is that it turns out that a lot of these machines have a digital stage. To cut a disk you need to pack the grooves as close as possible. But the spiral isn't fixed, it's adjusted dynamically. Quiet sections can be packed close together. That means that before cutting, the machine needs to know how much physical space it needs for the audio it's abou…

yes, they mostly use a digital delay, although some mastering houses still have a reel-to-reel equipped with an extra 'preview' head that gives the required lookahead for the lathe without any A/D conversion in the audio path.
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