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Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

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Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#131

Post by ipsento606 »

seethishat wrote: post #53

The newer synthetic nicotine pouches (Zyn, On, Velo) are everywhere in the USA and are being used by kids as young as 13. They are ruining the gut health of an entire generation of kids. Edit: Both boys and girls are dependent on these things now and they seem socially acceptable (no smoke, no spit, just swallow the chemical nicotine). Get ready for a huge wave of GI problems due to this.

Source for the claim that nicotine use "ruins" gut health?

My understanding is that the relationship between nicotine and gut health (indeed, overall health) is much more complex and nuanced than that. I know that nicotine has a positive effect on ulcerative colitis symptoms for many sufferers.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8895249/#s4

A quote:

Of all the diseases summarized here concerning systemic inflammation, especially in sepsis and endotoxemia, nicotine exerted the most pharmaceutical effect and significantly improved the survival. Next, nicotine is also a potential candidate for treating ulcerative colitis, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, multiple sclerosis, and myocarditis; the in vivo data provided a much better foundation. For local inflammation, the nicotine administration route may be more important to avoid its accumulation in other healthy organs—for example, the effect of nicotine on arthritis will be more pronounced when nicotine is directly injected into the focus of infection. Perhaps that is why, in the early years, tobacco was used to treat enteritis as enemas (4). It is evident that nicotine has a significant pro-inflammatory effect on periodontitis. However, the latest research also found that nicotine positively affects periodontitis at a lower dosage. In this regard, we consider that the effect of nicotine on periodontitis is mainly due to the influence of inevitable and original oral microbes. At present, most studies focus on the cellular level, and in vivo studies may be limited due to the difficulty of model construction. Therefore, we recommend that individuals with poor oral hygiene avoid excessive direct exposure to nicotine for oral diseases.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#132

Post by 9rx »

nickserv wrote: post #84
cm2012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it seems like the authors of this article are implying this is bad? I mean ultra-processed is a meaningless term but generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc.

It's absolutely not a meaningless term, it's a classification in the Nova standard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification And regarding health risks, please ask your doctor about your consumption. You may be surprised.

It is meaningless to the general population. No term is meaningless to an individual or small groups of people, obviously. That goes without saying.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#133

Post by malfist »

mpalczewski wrote: post #116
jjice wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential but similar nonsensical secrecy for consumables: alcohol not requiring a nutrition label always irks me.

One beer company tried to do it. But because beer has vitamins in it, they were prohibited from doing it as it might have made the beer seem healthy.

Can you provide a citation? Plenty of beers have nutrition information labels.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#134

Post by throwaway173738 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #97
seethishat wrote: post #53

The newer synthetic nicotine pouches (Zyn, On, Velo) are everywhere in the USA and are being used by kids as young as 13. They are ruining the gut health of an entire generation of kids. Edit: Both boys and girls are dependent on these things now and they seem socially acceptable (no smoke, no spit, just swallow the chemical nicotine). Get ready for a huge wave of GI problems due to this.

Is your problem with them that they're synthetic, or that it's nicotine? Pouched tobacco like that been used for decades in some places in the world, or even without pouches, just making your own ball and sticking the tobacco under your lip. I'm not sure these countries have a higher rate of GI/gut problems than other places, which kind of would invalidate your entire argument here.

You customarily spit out that saliva that’s been in contact with your dip. Swallowing it is way worse for you. When I framed houses the guys that chewed would leave a little trail of brown spots everywhere.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#136

Post by bondarchuk »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #39
cm2012 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two categories are massively different. Tobacco, you could make the case that you're just hurting people. Industrial food conglomerates are necessary to feed the world. People would die without them. They also make plenty of nutritious food. When people eat non-nutritious food it's not because the conglomerates are pushing it on them. It's because they choose it.

I agree in part. By definition, the conglomerates have many parts. Some of those are not objectively bad. I also agree that people have choices. I disagree that it is simply people choice it. When large corporations perform research to find hyperpalatable foods, spend billions on marketing, and capture regulatory apparatus to lock in their dominant position, it absolutely is that they are pushing it on people.

By and large most people don't see any problem with marketing, they will actually get a little bit mad at the suggestion it should be abolished, evidently it fulfills some kind of need for them.

All these kinds of questions you're asking come from a specific way of looking at things that is just not how most normal people look at the world. I'm not saying this out of misanthropy or some kind of wake-up-sheeple attitude, I'm also not saying you're wrong, but when you get knee-deep into critiqueing every aspect of how the world works at some point your worldview divorces from the worldview of most people to the point that "how do they all sleep at night" becomes kind of a moot question.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#137

Post by seethishat »

embedding-shape wrote: post #97
seethishat wrote: post #53

The newer synthetic nicotine pouches (Zyn, On, Velo) are everywhere in the USA and are being used by kids as young as 13. They are ruining the gut health of an entire generation of kids. Edit: Both boys and girls are dependent on these things now and they seem socially acceptable (no smoke, no spit, just swallow the chemical nicotine). Get ready for a huge wave of GI problems due to this.

Is your problem with them that they're synthetic, or that it's nicotine? Pouched tobacco like that been used for decades in some places in the world, or even without pouches, just making your own ball and sticking the tobacco under your lip. I'm not sure these countries have a higher rate of GI/gut problems than other places, which kind of would invalidate your entire argument here.

My problem is it is an experiment (synthetic nicotine that is socially acceptable) and kids are addicted to it. It's like candy. No one knows or complains because the users are not generating smoke, vapor or spit. They just swallow the synthetic nicotine.

Yes, people have used tobacco products for a long time. However, they have not sucked on them like candy and swallowed the contents 16 hours a day. They spit, exhaled, etc. Chewing tobacco and snuff are not acceptable and they ruin your teeth/gums. Smoking is not acceptable and it ruins your lungs/breathing ability. This stuff is socially OK, because no one can tell you are using it (no spit or smoke).

Check out all the reports of GI issues on reddit (QuittingZyn). This stuff causes all sorts of GI issues from the top of the stomach to the bottom of the bowel.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#138

Post by breezybottom »

margalabargala wrote: post #112
breezybottom wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know right-wing means rejecting bad science and progressive means accepting it.

It doesn't, so there's something you're correct about! But certainly pro-processed-foods stuff gets pushed by the right, and Soros is on the left, so there's the contradiction.

Huh? You're on the side of RFK Jr and the MAHA nutjobs. This is the kind of "science" they believe in.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#139

Post by ptaffs »

toasty228 wrote: post #38
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #23

I wonder about the folks who work for tobacco and industrial food conglomerates. Are they not aware of the part they play? Do they rationalize it somehow? Do they just not care? Did they end up there through mergers? Cynical arguments are facile. I'm not interested in hearing that people are dumb or evil. I am genuinely curious how these companies attract talent.

Same as the people on this every forum who work for meta, palantir, &co

This. And military contractors. And predatory financial companies including high-interest credit cards. US Health insurance. Oil and Gas. -- "It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/30/salary/

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#140

Post by forlorn_mammoth »

treis wrote: post #121
flossly wrote: post #46

Tobacco, wine and fresh bread are usually few of the consumables that in many western countries do not have to disclose their ingredients. Why do we allow this? Just behave like all others. Now we want to push for smoke-free societies: but non of ways to achieve this even dares to talk about "just make tobacco giants list all the ingredients/additives".

All fresh food does not have to disclose ingredients

I'm picturing a banana with a label on it that says:

Ingredients: banana Servings: 1 Serving Size: 1 banana

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