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Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

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Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#41

Post by sithadmin »

oytis wrote: post #21
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this objection a lot, even from folks I respect. Its ubiquity makes me wonder it is astroturfed. The definition I have heard is "food made with ingredients or processes not commonly used in ghome Unfortunately, when I looked to leading scientific orgs, they are dithering on releasing formal definitions, but all say something like what I'd heard. Conflicting information doesn't mean an abysmal situation. I'…

How should using processes not used at home make something harmful? If we make the same processes commonly available to use at home, will these foods become less harmful? I know there is science around it, but the very concept looks very unscientific, it's almost like talking about "unnatural food"

>How should using processes not used at home make something harmful?

Well, for starters - the refined sugars, carbohydrates and oils that seem to be the main culprits behind the obesity epidemic are mostly things that wouldn't be efficient (or in some cases, even possible) to create in a home cooking environment.

Sure, you could order some grain milling or oil extraction equipment on Alibaba and DIY it, but 99.999% of households aren't going to do that.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#42

Post by bandofthehawk »

cm2012 wrote: post #20
shrubby wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Hicks had a good advice to the marketing guys: "kill yourself" so I you're onto something here!

I know its just a joke, but Bill Hicks also constantly marketed himself and branded himself as an anti-marketing comedian. In his mind it was okay to promote yourself as a comedian but not promote your own business.

I don't think this is true, do you have a source for this? What does it even mean that he constantly marketed himself, is doing lots of shows considered "marketing yourself"?

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#43

Post by cm2012 »

toasty228 wrote: post #27
breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

> Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. Yes, and cigarettes cure cancer amirite ? We all know what they mean by ultra processed food, it's 75% of your supermarkets. 45% of the US is obese, the rest is overweight, food is one of the main factor in the top 2 leading causes of death in the US, if you can't see the problem you're blind There is a very good definition on wikipedia btw, and yes…

Weight gain has basically happened across the whole developed world because cost per calorie has gotten so low that people just eat more calories on average. This is why semi-glutides are the first thing ever to reduce weight gain and actually make people lose weight because they encourage reduced consumption.

Don't need ultra-processed food to be unhealthy. Rich guys in the 1800s would get fat and get gout and all these issues from overconsumption. It's just they were the only ones who could back then.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#44

Post by actionfromafar »

cm2012 wrote: post #28
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #23

I wonder about the folks who work for tobacco and industrial food conglomerates. Are they not aware of the part they play? Do they rationalize it somehow? Do they just not care? Did they end up there through mergers? Cynical arguments are facile. I'm not interested in hearing that people are dumb or evil. I am genuinely curious how these companies attract talent.

These two categories are massively different. Tobacco, you could make the case that you're just hurting people. Industrial food conglomerates are necessary to feed the world. People would die without them. They also make plenty of nutritious food. When people eat non-nutritious food it's not because the conglomerates are pushing it on them. It's because they choose it.

Yes, but why do they choose it?

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#46

Post by flossly »

Tobacco, wine and fresh bread are usually few of the consumables that in many western countries do not have to disclose their ingredients.

Why do we allow this? Just behave like all others.

Now we want to push for smoke-free societies: but non of ways to achieve this even dares to talk about "just make tobacco giants list all the ingredients/additives".

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#47

Post by toasty228 »

cm2012 wrote: post #24
oytis wrote: post #16

Logistics is logistics, the expeeience should be pretty transferrable, especially if no cold chain is involved. So good for them I guess?

Yes it seems like the authors of this article are implying this is bad? I mean ultra-processed is a meaningless term but generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc.

> ultra-processed is a meaningless

You'd find plenty of definitions if you looked for them

> generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc.

Go ahead and list the negatives too lmao... what do you think the additives meant to prevent living organism from developing on the food do in your gut for example ?

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11901572/

Ultra processed food benefit companies more than they benefit you

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#48

Post by macNchz »

nubinetwork wrote: post #32
breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

I've heard people say that even bread is ultra processed... I guess we're supposed to go back to eating twigs and berries.

Most of the packaged pre-sliced bread in the bread aisle (as opposed to the bakery area) of American supermarkets is full of ingredients not traditionally used in bread, or used in food at all until recent decades. Bread made with flour, water, salt, and yeast (plus maybe olive oil, butter, eggs, sugar, herbs etc) is not considered ultra processed.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#49

Post by cm2012 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #39
cm2012 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two categories are massively different. Tobacco, you could make the case that you're just hurting people. Industrial food conglomerates are necessary to feed the world. People would die without them. They also make plenty of nutritious food. When people eat non-nutritious food it's not because the conglomerates are pushing it on them. It's because they choose it.

I agree in part. By definition, the conglomerates have many parts. Some of those are not objectively bad. I also agree that people have choices. I disagree that it is simply people choice it. When large corporations perform research to find hyperpalatable foods, spend billions on marketing, and capture regulatory apparatus to lock in their dominant position, it absolutely is that they are pushing it on people.

Those things you said sound evil but they're really not. Finding hyper-palatable food is just another word for finding stuff people want to eat if you're making food, something that's tasty.

Spending billions on marketing? Marketing is how you connect to what customers want. I'm a professional marketer, right and it's really really hard. If I was trying to sell food, I'd try different positioning statements, different ways to see what actually appeals to people. Marketing is not magic; it's market discovery.

And yeah it's bad whenever any company captures regulatory power. That's bad and I agree.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#50

Post by jjice »

flossly wrote: post #46

Tobacco, wine and fresh bread are usually few of the consumables that in many western countries do not have to disclose their ingredients. Why do we allow this? Just behave like all others. Now we want to push for smoke-free societies: but non of ways to achieve this even dares to talk about "just make tobacco giants list all the ingredients/additives".

Tangential but similar nonsensical secrecy for consumables: alcohol not requiring a nutrition label always irks me.
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