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Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

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Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#21

Post by oytis »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #18
breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

I've heard this objection a lot, even from folks I respect. Its ubiquity makes me wonder it is astroturfed. The definition I have heard is "food made with ingredients or processes not commonly used in ghome Unfortunately, when I looked to leading scientific orgs, they are dithering on releasing formal definitions, but all say something like what I'd heard. Conflicting information doesn't mean an abysmal situation. I'…

How should using processes not used at home make something harmful? If we make the same processes commonly available to use at home, will these foods become less harmful?

I know there is science around it, but the very concept looks very unscientific, it's almost like talking about "unnatural food"

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#22

Post by spacebacon »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17
spacebacon wrote: post #8

They learned addiction and exploited sugar, fat, and salt with the rest of them.

I wonder if they go at it from that angle ("let's make these kids addicts for money!"), or if they gaslit themselves into something else. It's probably the latter, just like the tech companies did - they looked at just the numbers and analytics, did some tests, saw that if they do X then numbers Y and Z go up, rinse and repeat across decades. This is why Google no longer has just some unobtrusive text ads to the side…

I imagine the latter as well. They have to sleep at night. That is the nature of these unaccountable justification machines.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#23

Post by Hnrobert42 »

I wonder about the folks who work for tobacco and industrial food conglomerates. Are they not aware of the part they play? Do they rationalize it somehow? Do they just not care? Did they end up there through mergers?

Cynical arguments are facile. I'm not interested in hearing that people are dumb or evil. I am genuinely curious how these companies attract talent.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#24

Post by cm2012 »

oytis wrote: post #16

Logistics is logistics, the expeeience should be pretty transferrable, especially if no cold chain is involved. So good for them I guess?

Yes it seems like the authors of this article are implying this is bad? I mean ultra-processed is a meaningless term but generally processed food lasts longer, is less perishable, often cheaper, etc.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#25

Post by frameset »

breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

It isn't a meaningless word, and like my sibling poster I do wonder if that sentence is astroturfed by the junk food corpos.

The [NOVA classification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification) has definitions for various levels of food processing.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#26

Post by geye1234 »

AngryData wrote: post #4

And this is different from all other marketing how? If tobacco style marketing is a problem that needs to be solved, then 95% of marketing needs to be banned.

It's astonishing to me that advertising and marketing is accepted as normal. The majority of B2C marketing is designed to manipulate people's emotions so that they act against their interests, in order to make you money. It's really disgusting.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#27

Post by toasty228 »

breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

> Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention.

Yes, and cigarettes cure cancer amirite ?

We all know what they mean by ultra processed food, it's 75% of your supermarkets. 45% of the US is obese, the rest is overweight, food is one of the main factor in the top 2 leading causes of death in the US, if you can't see the problem you're blind

There is a very good definition on wikipedia btw, and yes not all ultra processed things are bad, but the vast majority of them are

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#28

Post by cm2012 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #23

I wonder about the folks who work for tobacco and industrial food conglomerates. Are they not aware of the part they play? Do they rationalize it somehow? Do they just not care? Did they end up there through mergers? Cynical arguments are facile. I'm not interested in hearing that people are dumb or evil. I am genuinely curious how these companies attract talent.

These two categories are massively different. Tobacco, you could make the case that you're just hurting people.

Industrial food conglomerates are necessary to feed the world. People would die without them. They also make plenty of nutritious food. When people eat non-nutritious food it's not because the conglomerates are pushing it on them. It's because they choose it.

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#29

Post by liveoneggs »

mapotofu wrote: post #15
breezybottom wrote: post #6

Ultra-processed is a meaningless word used to get media attention. The state of nutrition science is abysmal.

No it isn’t. The advice on nutrition is abundantly clear and has been for a long time: eat food, mostly plants, not too much. That science has pushed GRAS as “food” is abysmal. Lots of you have just been punked.

that's a quote from a journalist so it really drives home the point

Re: Ultra-processed foods in the global food system: The role of tobacco companies

#30

Post by bondarchuk »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #23

I wonder about the folks who work for tobacco and industrial food conglomerates. Are they not aware of the part they play? Do they rationalize it somehow? Do they just not care? Did they end up there through mergers? Cynical arguments are facile. I'm not interested in hearing that people are dumb or evil. I am genuinely curious how these companies attract talent.

idk about tobacco but the vast majority of normal people see no great problem with industrially produced food. By my reckoning if you say at a party you work for Unilever or something the most you'll get is an "oh that's cool I guess".
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