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Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

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Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#231

Post by soraminazuki »

breve wrote: post #69
shawnhermans wrote: post #9

What really gets to me is how big tech isn't even pretending anymore to serve society. They clearly feel superior to the rest of us and entitled to rule.

Bryan Cantrill warns, "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn. You stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' -- the lawnmower doesn't give a shit about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don'…

He also said later:

> For a while, I tried not going into Nazi allegory when talking about Oracle, but I actually think it does a disservice to not go into Nazi allegory because if I don't use Nazi allegory when referring to Oracle, there are some critical understanding that I have left on the table. There's an element of the story you can't possibly understand. If you had to explain the Nazis to someone who had never heard of World War 2, but was an Oracle customer, there's a very good chance that you would actually explain the Nazis in Oracle allegory. So, it's like: "Really, wow, a whole country?" "Yes, Larry Ellison has an entire country." "Oh my god, the humanity! The license audits!" "Yes, we should talk to Poland about it, it was bad."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79fvDDPaIoY&t=1440s

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#232

Post by shepherdjerred »

atmavatar wrote: post #193
tejtm wrote: post #168

the classic "Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don’t anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it’ll chop it off, the end. You don’t think "oh, the lawnmower hates me" – lawnmower doesn’t give a shit about you, lawnmower can’t hate you. Don’t anthropomorphize…

I get a chuckle out of that quote like the rest of us, but what I don't like about the metaphor is that the lawnmower has no agency and thus bears no responsibility for the damage it causes, whereas Larry Ellison does.

Clearly you have already fallen into the trap

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#233

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

6stringmerc wrote: post #167
vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t have millennia of experience with a surveillance state. But so far people are accepting it because their economic situation is generally improving. And crime is low. It may change once they have reached the same level of prosperity as the West and growth slows.

Uh, are you sure about that claim regarding surveillance over human history? Just because the technology has advanced does not entail the methods or concepts are novel. Quite the contrary in my view: the modern versions are natural evolutions of long traditions and customs. Having “rats” and “moles” reporting on behavior is, I mean, it predates written records of I’m not mistaken.

Today is a totally different scale. The German stasi needed a huge amount of people to handle all the incoming data and a lot of it fell through anyways l. Today you just throw a lot of compute at it and nothing can escape.

Yes you always had people snitching on each other but it was inefficient and hard to centralize. Today is different.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#234

Post by [deleted] »

justacrow wrote: post #196
sph wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats to those among us building this dystopia. It's not Larry Ellison coding these systems.

Look, I have exactly two options: 1) Me and my entire family starves to death 2) I make 600k per year building surveillance systems for whoever wants them (as long as they're aligned with Peter Thiels and/or government interests)

[deleted]

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#235

Post by anal_reactor »

f-serif wrote: post #113

Bangladesh is one of the best example of it. People usually don't want to follow traffic laws on road. Now that we have AI camera recording and AI fine system, people try their best to follow traffic laws. We are becoming Japan following traffic laws in certain areas. Police usually were scared to fine million dollars cars (because the car owner might be part of something higher power and they could lose their job).…

The subtlety I rarely see discussed is that:

- privacy is fantastic in a society full of good people

- surveillance is the best defence against shit people

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#236

Post by trinsic2 »

anal_reactor wrote: post #235
f-serif wrote: post #113

Bangladesh is one of the best example of it. People usually don't want to follow traffic laws on road. Now that we have AI camera recording and AI fine system, people try their best to follow traffic laws. We are becoming Japan following traffic laws in certain areas. Police usually were scared to fine million dollars cars (because the car owner might be part of something higher power and they could lose their job).…

The subtlety I rarely see discussed is that: - privacy is fantastic in a society full of good people - surveillance is the best defence against shit people

The problem is conditions are the main reason for shit people. so its kind of a chicken and the egg problem. Its a both and problem.

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#237

Post by [deleted] »

EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

[deleted]

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#238

Post by downrightmike »

pstuart wrote: post #221
downrightmike wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They turn them off all the time or the footage gets deleted

Understood. But sometimes they forget, and those times have been shown to be valuable to get justice for the citizens they are engaged with.

yeah, I have no doubt they will digitally scrub cops out of the mass surveillance cameras

Re: Larry Ellison: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we’re recording"

#239

Post by duxup »

EastLondonCoder wrote: post #71

I think the really dangerous part here is not just “surveillance bad”. It is that AI removes the labour cost that used to limit surveillance. CCTV was already a problem, but someone still had to watch it, search it, interpret it, escalate it. AI changes that. It makes surveillance searchable, scalable and administratively useful. The shift is from “you may be observed” to “your behaviour can be continuously machine-i…

We've already had people detained because an AI camera thought they were carrying something bad, like a gun.

So now it's guilty until you prove the computer wrong.

In one case it was a bag of chips:

https://abc7.com/post/student-handcuffed-doritos-bag-mistake...

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