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GTA 6 Developers Unionize

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Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#351

Post by qazxcvbnmlp »

jakeydus wrote: post #316
mikepurvis wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is usually framed in terms of greedy corporations cynically exploiting young workers, but having interviewed for a Sony studio myself a few years ago (and ultimately going back to my native robotics field for almost exactly double the pay), I think there is something tangible about the compensation that is working on something normal people encounter, especially in the leisure spaces of their lives. It may not p…

I've always said that being an engineer is a classic choose two out of three options situation. You can: - be well compensated - work on something interesting - work on something ethical Obviously there's the rare unicorn out there where you get all three, but those are the exception, not the rule.

The sneaky thing you don't realize when you’re 20 is that you come to be interested in what you work on. So if you just try and do what you do well, it will become interesting!

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#352

Post by [deleted] »

shric wrote: post #346
toomuchtodo wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual exit is a short-term solution to a systemic problem. Unions raise the floor, and you have no power otherwise. “Be lucky” is not a strategy that scales. If workers could easily find jobs where employers aren’t maxing extraction at the lowest cost possible, your proposal might be realistic. In this timeline, it is a suboptimal proposal. > Today, the US Treasury Department released a first-of-its-kind report…

You said “Unions are the *only legal way* for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions.” (Emphasis mine) My reply was not to say unions were bad or ineffective at accomplishing the goal, it was simply refuting your blanket statement.

[deleted]

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#353

Post by amazingamazing »

unselect5917 wrote: post #318

I wish we had more (or maybe better yet one) software engineering union in America. The trouble seems to be that it's so easy to scab (outsource) or hire foreign competition (H1b et al) which is a pretty broken program even according to some of the people whom I've talked to who are on it. One multi-team architect I know working for a brand you've definitely heard of was making like $65K and doing a $250K job of it.…

Ironically even in the case here it is the outsourced people unionizing.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#354

Post by guywithahat »

vortegne wrote: post #206

Any and all discussions about unions on HN sadly just shows how the supposedly smart people can be extremely misinformed and propagandized. Not even really worth engaging in the discussions when it seems like any compassion has been beaten out of the (mostly USA-based, which explains a lot) audience here. Happy for the devs, more power to them! For the sake of workers everywhere, I hope the US also catches up one day…

I think anti-union sentiment comes from the practical reality which is if you go to union-towns, they often look bombed out and horrible. The UAW, arguably the largest private union in the US, was founded in Flint, Michigan. The union didn't care about the city or its future, it simply sucked money out of the economy until there was nothing left, and then they ran off to DC. Conversely, industry towns without unions are usually nice places to live as the companies continue to invest money in them to attract more employees. This is a pattern we see over and over again, and in my opinion has led to the strong anti-union sentiment we see all over the midwest rust belt.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#355

Post by mrkpdl »

shric wrote: post #331
toomuchtodo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. Support for them is at a historical high, especially amongst younger cohorts. https://news.gallup.com/poll/694472/labor-union-approval-rel... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/08/27/majoritie... https://www.epi.org/blog/americans-favor-labor-unions-over-b...

> Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions?

> How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions?

Generally the reason there is a company that has better working conditions and compensation to go to is because of their union… so…

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#356

Post by abustamam »

bouncing_bolete wrote: post #338
ZenoArrow wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely predatory. Perhaps if you're a company founder you can try to glamourise this level of personal sacrifice, but for standard employees it's clearly an unhealthy level of work, and would have been seen so by most normal people 10/15 years ago too. Also, nobody is going to do their best work when they're having to work so many hours, it's highly likely you're not getting a lot of good work done if you pu…

Imo it's fine to glorify the 65+ hour grind a founder takes on. The issue is trying to apply that logic to normal employees. The calculation of time v payoff is worlds different

Yeah you can't expect employees who maybe have a 0.1% stake in the company if they're lucky, to put in 65h+ a week.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#357

Post by bananaboy »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #296
sonzohan wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game dev here, have worked on AAA and indie. First off let me get on my high horse and say the engineering in video gaming is generally more complex than the engineering I've done working in big tech. You need a lot more creativity and ingenuity to solve the unusual problems you run into in gaming. From there, as others have said, it's a simple supply and demand issue. Nowadays I am a university professor, nearly eve…

"You trade good salary for your name in the credits" When did that become a thing? When Gears of War bonus checks started hitting Epic's parking lot went from a random collection of reasonable vehicles to looking like an exotic car show. I'm fairly certain every dev that worked on Gears or Unreal could have retired off the bonus payouts.

If you’re working for one of the big studios making blockbusters the bonuses can still be pretty good.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#358

Post by mrkpdl »

parineum wrote: post #70
HugoTea wrote: post #5

This is great news, unions not only improve working conditions, but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. It's a good sign for the future product quality of any company to see workers unionise.

> but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. We'll see. It's not like police unions are making life better for citizens. Unions are there for one reason, the union members. This will most likely be good for the employees and good on them for acting in their best interest but it seems just as likely that a unionized rockstar is negative for the consumer in either inc…

Look at the big picture. Most consumers work somewhere. Better working conditions across the board can only be good for consumers.

Edit: and a note to say that comparing all unions to police unions isn’t a good faith/useful comparison. It’s true that the quality of unions vary, but overall they do far more good than bad.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#359

Post by forgetfreeman »

Sharlin wrote: post #325
forgetfreeman wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You trade good salary for your name in the credits" When did that become a thing? When Gears of War bonus checks started hitting Epic's parking lot went from a random collection of reasonable vehicles to looking like an exotic car show. I'm fairly certain every dev that worked on Gears or Unreal could have retired off the bonus payouts.

That’s a tiny and decidedly nonrepresentative sample of gamedevs.

Fair enough. That community is a hell of a lot larger now than it used to be.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#360

Post by jayd16 »

WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Supply of folks who want to work on a game is higher so wages suffer. Pay is not influenced by talent or merit alone.

That and they used to be able to waive a mythical shipping bonus but if it was ever true, I don't think its really something to count on these days.

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