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GTA 6 Developers Unionize

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Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#331

Post by shric »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #261
__natty__ wrote: post #237

> Together, we are organising around the things we want to change. Starting with: Pay transparency Flexible working An end to crunch That’s a lot of demands, what next? Competitive salary?! /sarcasm I hope more people will start fighting together for better work conditions. Company owners have money and lawyers so workers must unite to fight them back. I’m saying this as employer.

Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. Support for them is at a historical high, especially amongst younger cohorts. https://news.gallup.com/poll/694472/labor-union-approval-rel... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/08/27/majoritie... https://www.epi.org/blog/americans-favor-labor-unions-over-b...

> Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions.

How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions?

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#333

Post by toomuchtodo »

shric wrote: post #331
toomuchtodo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. Support for them is at a historical high, especially amongst younger cohorts. https://news.gallup.com/poll/694472/labor-union-approval-rel... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/08/27/majoritie... https://www.epi.org/blog/americans-favor-labor-unions-over-b...

> Unions are the only legal way for workers to improve their situation around compensation and working conditions. How about going to work somewhere with better compensation and working conditions?

Individual exit is a short-term solution to a systemic problem. Unions raise the floor, and you have no power otherwise. “Be lucky” is not a strategy that scales.

If workers could easily find jobs where employers aren’t maxing extraction at the lowest cost possible, your proposal might be realistic. In this timeline, it is a suboptimal proposal.

> Today, the US Treasury Department released a first-of-its-kind report on labor unions, highlighting the evidence that unions serve to strengthen the middle class and grow the economy at large. Over the last half century, middle-class households have experienced stagnating wages, rising income volatility, and reduced intergenerational mobility, even as the economy as a whole has prospered. Unions can improve the well-being of middle-class workers in ways that directly combat these negative trends. Pro-union policy can make a real difference to middle-class households by raising their incomes, improving their work environments, and boosting their job satisfaction. In doing so, unions can help to make the economy more equitable and robust.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions...

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Labor-Unions-And-...

(“if you want to go fast, go alone; if you want to go far, go together”)

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#334

Post by csallen »

cineticdaffodil wrote: post #329
Insanity wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The games industry is notorious for this, yet far from the only industry working against deadlines. Deadlines are a good way to timebox work, but they need to be set in a realistic way rather than an optimized happy-path. I do understand there are certain periods where games _should_ release to make more sales, and for most games that's probably true. But this is GTA VI, they can miss the launch window by a month and…

Well, GTA 6 was basicallly thrown away and rewritten, so after the first crunch, ever more crunch to get the 2nd attempt to the finnishing line.

> GTA 6 was basicallly thrown away and rewritten

How do you know? This sounds like an unverified rumor.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#335

Post by forrestthewoods »

WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Because “big video game” revenue did continue to grow exponentially.

Big Tech has infinite money from ads to spend on whatever. Video games do not.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#337

Post by socalgal2 »

Insanity wrote: post #269
jayceedenton wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you end crunch? Teams always work at a more relaxed pace when the deadlines are years out. You can't beat Parkinson's law no matter how generous you are with the estimates. We've all tried methodologies to counter this problem and create a continuous, sustainable pace. Unfortunately there's something deep in human nature that prevents us spreading that effort out evenly from day one.

The games industry is notorious for this, yet far from the only industry working against deadlines. Deadlines are a good way to timebox work, but they need to be set in a realistic way rather than an optimized happy-path. I do understand there are certain periods where games _should_ release to make more sales, and for most games that's probably true. But this is GTA VI, they can miss the launch window by a month and…

GTA6 in isolation is not the issue. Coordination with the entire rest of the ecosystem is. Ads are bought and paid for 6 month before launch for certain time slots. Store shelf space is reserved. Miss the deadlines and those downstream companies suffer. Their promotion time slots / space, is unbooked and it's too late to fill it with something appropriate. So, the company makes the promise "we'll have ready by November". They make this promise in April. Don't deliver and they don't do business with you next time. Maybe GTV6 is an exception here, that doesn't change the general point.

You could try to argue that companies shouldn't even start that process until the project is finished. Step 1: finish project, Step 2: book ads/shelf space, Step 3: 6 months later, ship it. But sitting on a finished project for 6 months is like not investing your money for 6 months. A lot of money is lost. Money can comes out of salaries

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#338

Post by bouncing_bolete »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #324
saltyoldman wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who is in hn these days, remember like 10/15 years ago everyone was just willingly working 65+ hours. now it's "extremely predatory".

It is extremely predatory. Perhaps if you're a company founder you can try to glamourise this level of personal sacrifice, but for standard employees it's clearly an unhealthy level of work, and would have been seen so by most normal people 10/15 years ago too. Also, nobody is going to do their best work when they're having to work so many hours, it's highly likely you're not getting a lot of good work done if you pu…

Imo it's fine to glorify the 65+ hour grind a founder takes on. The issue is trying to apply that logic to normal employees. The calculation of time v payoff is worlds different

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#339

Post by retired »

jayceedenton wrote: post #264
__natty__ wrote: post #237

> Together, we are organising around the things we want to change. Starting with: Pay transparency Flexible working An end to crunch That’s a lot of demands, what next? Competitive salary?! /sarcasm I hope more people will start fighting together for better work conditions. Company owners have money and lawyers so workers must unite to fight them back. I’m saying this as employer.

How do you end crunch? Teams always work at a more relaxed pace when the deadlines are years out. You can't beat Parkinson's law no matter how generous you are with the estimates. We've all tried methodologies to counter this problem and create a continuous, sustainable pace. Unfortunately there's something deep in human nature that prevents us spreading that effort out evenly from day one.

Change videogames so they aren't big-bang releases but make them monthly releases.

Building a piece software for years and then releasing it all in once reminds me of the 1990s. Nowadays we continuously deliver.

Euro Truck Simulator 2 works with that model. Every few months they release a new part of the European map. And every few months they release new truck models.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#340

Post by joe_mamba »

bko wrote: post #179
tredre3 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the same problem in the rest of tech, though? Being unable to get into a AAA studio is as unfair as being unable to get into FAANG. This just brings game development in line with other code monkeys. Top studios will pay top dollars, Indie studios will pay what they can, often almost nothing. And I see nothing wrong with that, do you?

Why are so many engineers unable to get into FAANG? Their hiring seems pretty straight forward. Cram leetcode. Most people can't get into it because they don't want to dedicate 100+ hours cramming these tests. But if you do and you're reasonably smart, you'll get in. Much better chance than something like banking/consulting (hire right out of school) or lawyers (must go through lots of schools). Out of the high paid…

>Why are so many engineers unable to get into FAANG? Their hiring seems pretty straight forward. Cram leetcode.

First you gotta get passed the resume screening before you get to leetcode. Average resumes with no-name companies don't get past FANG recruiters to get to the leetcode stage.

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