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GTA 6 Developers Unionize

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Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#201

Post by ed_balls »

simonjgreen wrote: post #73
amazingamazing wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? American cars suck compared to japanese and chinese which are not unionized. What’s an example of a unionized vs non unionized group producing the same thing where unionized is better?

The unionised Openreach in UK who are really the de facto layer 1 network provider telco build infrastructure to a staggeringly higher quality than most of the move fast startup alternatives. Aviation unions force very high standards and represent a lot of the developments in safety and procedures. Nuclear power is heavily unionised, resulting in a very stable and highly qualified workforce. Unions in film and tv hav…

> The unionised Openreach in UK who are really the de facto layer 1 network provider telco build infrastructure to a staggeringly higher quality

and it's crap compared to Romanian or Polish which are not unionised (I think)

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#202

Post by abnercoimbre »

jhatemyjob wrote: post #198
abnercoimbre wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a crazy worldview to hold when looking at the annual revenue of just a single IP like Pokemon? Video games surpassed Hollywood years ago ! If we want to measure value differently, I already treat certain games with the same reverence as literary classics, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

Funny you mention Pokemon. Have you been to a Pokemon regional championships recently? Take a good look at the average Pokemon player. You really think that hobby is adding value to their life?

I've met people whose lives were almost destroyed due to games. This is true. I've also met those whose lives were transformed positively by it (no, not Pokemon.) They run the whole gamut.

I'll concede an email app doesn't produce that kind of wide-ranging effect on humans.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#204

Post by matchbok3 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #185
smsm42 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Are unions net benefit for the general public" and "whether reforming or abolishing the unions is the best course of action for the general public" are two separate questions. The unions could be beneficial (and still a reform could improve this benefit) or they could be harmful (but a reform could make them beneficial without abolishing them). The original claim was they are beneficial right now, in heir current fo…

If it’s a matter of proof, these are all links already posted on this site: https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/union-effect-in-california-... https://www.epi.org/publication/unions-decline-inequality-ri... https://werd.io/unions-work/ https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-13/unions... https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/19/20727283/u...

Do you think Vox has ever written about how transit unions increase costs by mandating redundant workers and work against technology that could automate trains?

Do you think Box has ever written about how Detroit unions fought EVs and AVs and automation that could result in cheaper cars?

Why do you think that is?

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#205

Post by iknowstuff »

strictnein wrote: post #136
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police unions aren’t labor unions and are illegal in many countries including Japan. https://theconversation.com/why-police-unions-are-not-part-o... Notably, American police (the country that invented police unions) are a modern invention that largely exist as a output of slave catching and bounty hunting services.

The police union in my city, in a state that borders Canada and fought against slavery, was founded in 1915. I'm guessing they would be surprised to learn that they are a "modern invention" that was from "slave catching" (I guess they do time travel?) and "bounty hunting services". I'm not even sure how you can say something is both a "modern invention" and the "output of slave catching". There's nothing modern about…

[flagged]

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#206

Post by vortegne »

Any and all discussions about unions on HN sadly just shows how the supposedly smart people can be extremely misinformed and propagandized. Not even really worth engaging in the discussions when it seems like any compassion has been beaten out of the (mostly USA-based, which explains a lot) audience here.

Happy for the devs, more power to them! For the sake of workers everywhere, I hope the US also catches up one day in empathy and rational thinking, when it comes to labor laws and rights.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#207

Post by Jare »

saadn92 wrote: post #89
WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

my guess is: the ENGINEERING problems they solve are harder, but they're still just video games at the end of the day, compared to something that solves an actual business need.

The business need of the games industry is making money selling games and content and ads, just like the business need of Netflix or Spotify is making money via ads and subscriptions for music or movies or etc.

It's a consumer business much like any other. Just like most startups and major companies, they are not necessary for the world in the way utilities for example are.

The problem of videogames compared to startups and SV tech is that the long-term money potential is very limited at best, and rapidly becomes very brittle. Most startups pay bigger salaries for much easier work, because they burn the money investors are betting hoping the company will crack a new long-term market, not because they make money themselves. There's very little games market to crack, very little chance to turn your product into a long-lived platform to built on top of, meanwhile the upfront investment is huge.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#208

Post by evdubs »

amazingamazing wrote: post #87
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey as long as you can find a reason you are right, that’s really what all life is about right?

Huh? Are you projecting something here?

Is it so difficult to say, "You're right. I'm wrong. There are actually unions for autoworkers in both China and Japan." ?

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#209

Post by cheeze »

sonzohan wrote: post #177
WarmWash wrote: post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Game dev here, have worked on AAA and indie. First off let me get on my high horse and say the engineering in video gaming is generally more complex than the engineering I've done working in big tech. You need a lot more creativity and ingenuity to solve the unusual problems you run into in gaming. From there, as others have said, it's a simple supply and demand issue. Nowadays I am a university professor, nearly eve…

I'm the opposite. BigCorp distributed systems guy.

I'd agree with all of this from what I've seen though. The problems that some of my buddies solved straight out of college, while very different than 'hard problems' at bigcorp, are... hard.

One buddy ended up moving to the worst of both worlds... backend infra for a large video game and ended up getting video game salary for bigcorp distributed systems problems.

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