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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#231

Post by ekidd »

swiftcoder wrote: post #170
mlsu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely actively bad to involve a device in the vast majority of education. And, it’s a purely selfish thing by tech companies to insert themselves into education. A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class.

> A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class. Are you really trying to put the genie back in the bottle to the extent of making high schoolers write all their coursework by hand? Or maybe we should bring back the typewriter for distraction-free essay writing...

As someone who hates handwriting in bluebooks, and who types constantly, yes: I think we should bring back in-class writing by hand, we should lock up cellphones for the school day, and we should proctor exams. If you're not doing this, your students will be stuck to a screen all day, pay no attention to class, and use ChatGPT under the desk to cheat.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#232

Post by [deleted] »

hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

[deleted]

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#233

Post by econ »

CalRobert wrote: post #61
StateflowsLabs wrote: post #2

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

I wasn't underprivileged but I did go to a terrible evangelical high school that had no honors or AP classes (AP bio at a place teaching creationism would've been something else...) and I think I only got in to a decent college on the strength of my SAT and ACT scores. My grades were OK (except in bio, where I refused to acknowledge young Earth creationism) but not amazing.

Who gets to set the curriculum is a much bigger deal than given credit for. So many teachers complaining about the shit they have to teach. I remember one who didn't necessarily disagree but wondered why Al Gore should be the one to decide what goes into the [mandatory] documentary (in the Netherlands)

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#234

Post by malshe »

colechristensen wrote: post #109
malshe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and think this claim needs a lot more evidence. In my university we have been providing remedial math classes for freshman students for a long time. They must pass these before taking regular classes that have math prerequisites.

I had to take a math placement test which was exactly "do you need to take remedial math?" in test form, passing the test was a prereq for a large swath of math/science/engineering classes

Makes a lot of sense. I can't imagine giving up significant chunk of my regular teaching for offering remedial math!

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#235

Post by layer8 »

sparqlittlestar wrote: post #132
layer8 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t it run restricted to a single application in kiosk mode? Unless the application itself provides distraction, what would be distracting?

The very light it emits, the liquid glass lensing animations, etc

At least with OLED, the light output can be auto-adjusted to match the reflecting light of the environment. This can be quite convincing, looking like a purely reflective surface. And a dedicated app doesn’t need to use any distracting animations or highlights.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#236

Post by TimorousBestie »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #106
TimorousBestie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, but the reality is that such conditions do interfere with the potential of academic success, as much as proponents of equity like to argue otherwise. This is a bizarre claim in the second clause. Proponents of equity do recognize that various conditions impact academic potential; otherwise, they wouldn’t attempt to ameliorate them. You even quoted, “Equity recognizes this uneven playing field. . .” so where d…

The person I was replying to quoted the article saying "conditions should not interfere", my point was that they do interfere, and will continue to interfere, in spite of all the efforts and hands on the scale and discrimination that equity proponents try to implement. Equity fundamentally arises from a more or less "blank-slatist" view of humans, which is why it leads to such insane outcomes when it comes into conta…

> The person I was replying to quoted the article saying "conditions should not interfere", my point was that they do interfere, and will continue to interfere, in spite of all the efforts and hands on the scale and discrimination that equity proponents try to implement.

So? Name a social intervention that did achieve all its goals.

> Equity fundamentally arises from a more or less "blank-slatist" view of humans

Digging up a straw man from the 17th century is not particularly persuasive.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#237

Post by jackmott42 »

hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

In countries where students perform better, they do the opposite of your plan. Resources are pumped into the failing schools to get them to do better. You seem to be just arguing for even more privatization in American which is awful, the kids that are failing have parents that won't be paying for good education or setting up schools. They won't bother with it at all if it isn't public and required.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#238

Post by hedora »

gausswho wrote: post #202
hedora wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. There are safeguards (that are currently failing) that my program would engage: - The state is legally required to provide those kids with an education. - There is funding allocated to help those districts. If "we will not pay you if the kids do not learn" means there are zero schools in those districts then (1) the state government will get sued for not doing its job (because closing 100% of the school…

With sympathy to your appeal that 100% closures will force us to reckon with the problem, I suspect it'd only lead to missing the forest for the trees. This would come with substantial pains to the community. Potentially ones that knock-on to other pains. You're at the root of why this is a tricky problem to solve. In fact there is no solution, just a wide basket of expensive things we should aspire to do to improve…

What pain, exactly?

- The local public school goes from 80 kids per grade to 40, and a new school opens across the street or just rents an existing building from the existing school district.

- Funding stays flat, and academic performance goes up.

- Administrators get to decide which teachers to lay off, and they will be de facto fired if they get rid of the high performers while keeping the low performers.

- If the union contracts make it impossible to retain the high-performers, then the school eventually shuts down, and teachers that are competitive on the job market get hired by the new school for similar pay / benefits.

- Teachers at the new school get evaluated on whether they do their job, and the new administrators have a strong financial incentive to use performance-based evaluation instead of seniority / nepotism / whatever.

I see no downside whatsoever.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#239

Post by toast0 »

doubled112 wrote: post #215
bix6 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned typing in 3rd grade iirc. That seems reasonable for a fundamental skill.

My kids are in grade 3 and 6 and nobody ever taught them to type. They just handed them a Chromebook and assumed they know what they're doing. It is a skill, but everybody seems to think it will just happen on its own.

The problem is everyone knows you learn to type when you get on IRC, but you can't put elementary school kids on IRC.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#240

Post by scarmig »

thewebguyd wrote: post #192
M3L0NM4N wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number 1 predictor of educational outcome is IQ by a long shot, which is hardly affected by any of the factors you listed. Yes, high IQ kids usually have high IQ parents who are likely to prevent those things, partly because they are likely high income, but none of those are as important as how smart the child is.

The heritability of IQ actually changes based on wealth, so its the other way around. A child from a wealthy family will reach their potential, where one from a poorer family will not. ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14629696/ ) A child may have the genetic potential but never reach their potential because of outside factors. One's environment shapes one's brain development. That's why equity is just as important a…

That mistakes the point of education. Schools do not exist to fix every social problem, and demanding they treat fixing every social problem as their number one priority is how we got into this mess of "teach nothing but make sure everyone passes" in the first place.
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