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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#111

Post by jancsika »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

> i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math.

"gaps" implies a critical mass of students who require middle-school math reteaching.

> i teach.

If you've taught for a non-trivial amount of time, you did one of the following with that class:

* graded on a curve so you don't fail half the class

* failed half the class, and got suspended (pours one out for my compsci professor in college who did that!)

Which was it?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#112

Post by lokar »

ceejayoz wrote: post #75
lokar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should not admit students who have little chance of success

Sure, but these students are likely two groups; those who are never going to be good at math , and those who were never really taught math . The latter may need an opportunity to succeed.

I agree, but they should be admitted into some special program. Like, turn up in July for 3 months of catch-up instruction 4 hrs a day.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#113

Post by zdragnar »

Ekaros wrote: post #81
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

Also these are most likely the first classes. You can not block most of your entering cohort. Or even any way significant part. At least in the system these professors exist in. In some other systems like say German where getting in easy and getting rid of some is normal would be different.

Do they not have remedial classes for these students? It's been more than 20 years, but back in my day, if you weren't ready for entry level classes (but still got in to university) you took remedial classes first.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#114

Post by triceratops »

ceejayoz wrote: post #11
StateflowsLabs wrote: post #2

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

> Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. Sports frequently just requires a ball or a place to run. In both scenarios, you can still purchase better equipment/training. There are very expensive, effective SAT prep options out there for the wealthy.

Whatever gates you put up, the wealthy can fire cannons of cash at them. You just have to pick the ones least vulnerable to cash barrages.

What is the marginal gain of expensive SAT prep? Versus just doing hundreds of mock tests out of some prep book, like SWEs grinding LeetCode?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#115

Post by hedora »

ryandrake wrote: post #68
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Measuring (and funding) schools based on student outcome is fraught because a student's performance / preparedness for the "next level" is not entirely a function of the school. There are other significant parameters, including parental upbringing, home life stability, neighborhood safety, friends, hunger/nutrition, various trauma and abuse, the list goes on. I'm sure it's been studied, but I'd bet "school quality" i…

This is true. There are safeguards (that are currently failing) that my program would engage:

- The state is legally required to provide those kids with an education.

- There is funding allocated to help those districts.

If "we will not pay you if the kids do not learn" means there are zero schools in those districts then (1) the state government will get sued for not doing its job (because closing 100% of the schools makes the failure objective and obvious) and (2) it will have to update those funding formulas so that it is possible for some school (state run, or private) to break even while providing an education in those areas.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#116

Post by confidantlake »

hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

The most important factor isn't the schools, it is the kids themselves.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#117

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

japhyr wrote: post #18

Anecdotal data point: My son is finishing 9th grade, and he's taking 10th grade math because he got ahead a year when he was younger. At his school, you're exempted from having to take the final exam if you're passing with a reasonable grade at the end of the semester. He said there are about four students who don't have to take the final exam. Math has always been hard to teach well, because issues with earlier math…

True. COVID has set the entire cohort back, in terms of education but also every other aspect of personal development.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#118

Post by layer8 »

snazz wrote: post #108
collabs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking why not use the iPad simply as a letter pad with infinite pages? the new iPad with the new iPad pencil can do that and I am sure with the right software you can write, erase, rewrite as much as you want? What am I missing?

No matter how you restrict it with MDM profiles, it’s distracting compared to pencil/paper.

Can’t it run restricted to a single application in kiosk mode? Unless the application itself provides distraction, what would be distracting?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#119

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

What isn’t fair is for schools to take students’ matriculation and set them up for years of debt, apparently without any intention of educating them properly as per your comment. Better for schools to just screen based on standardized test scores

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#120

Post by 9dev »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #59
9dev wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hold a race, but some people start further behind others, they have a longer track to run. I think we can agree that to call it a fair race, we'd want to accommodate for the track length.

Sure, but if some people are faster than others because they have longer legs or because they've trained more etc. then people without such advantages aren't given special accomodation. It actually runs in my family that we have very short legs in comparison to our torsos. For example I'm 6' tall but look like I'm 6' 4" or thereabouts when sitting down next to someone with more normal proportions. In spite of this di…

And that's commendable, but what if your brother would not have had time for doing cross country in high school because he had to care for his siblings as your parents were poor and working double shifts? Or so heavily indebted due to a cancer therapy that he couldn't afford running shoes?

> people without such advantages aren't given special accomodation

They are not - but I'm specifically talking about the reverse case, where people start with extra disadvantages that cause them to start even further behind their peers. Curiously, everyone seems to understand the purpose of handicaps in Golf, but it's an outrageously leftist concept in social contexts.

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