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Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

gingerlime.com

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Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#191

Post by gingerlime »

minimaltom wrote: post #150
gingerlime wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to share their responses verbatim. It was a rather long back-n-forth. Here's a snippet from the latest email, which I think makes it clear that they do not use the evidence I provided: I can assure you that I will take note of your feedback and pass it to our team. Your point about post-transaction abuse detection is valid - while Stripe has robust network-level fraud detection, there does appear to be a gap in…

Theres no gotchas in the quoted text, but curious if you got the impression from your emails that any of it was.. AI generated? The camber, affirmation, word choice, triplet phrase... leaves me wondering. But without a smoking gun its hard to know if a model call was fired.

Yes most of the communication felt rather LLM assisted or generated. Though to be fair Stripe from my experience always had emphatic support and well written responses. In a way they probably set the gold standard that AI support now mimics.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#192

Post by u8080 »

Cider9986 wrote: post #127
zuzululu wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont follow. If regular finance to a country is that much distanced from global financial oversight and treaties where crypto (with awful spreads) becomes the norm that doesnt necessarily mean they are victims of international financial order but that regular financially modeling simply cannot manage their unique risk characteristics

Damn, I made a great reply and it never sent–that sucks. I was more nuanced and specific, but I don't want to do it all again. 1. The fees are not awful idk what you mean, I pay between 0.1% and 1% fees on Monero transactions. 2. If the modelling can't manage their risk characteristics, they are by definition a victim of the financial system. I was more talking about people who have been debanked, though. I have a Ru…

>risk to his life from being on the free internet

Idk where you are getting this, but "risk to his life from being on the free internet" is total BS.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#193

Post by gingerlime »

startages wrote: post #136

I help a lot of client with their ecommerce websites (mostly WooCommerce), attacks became so common recently, could be AI, but I found the best way to deal with this is to trace the patterns in access log and block the same patterns of checkout submission, this have worked really well for me. There are a lot of card testing attacks that Stripe doesn't care to handle as well as a lot of other fraud techniques, but the…

none of the technical measures you mentioned could work with “friendly fraud”. It was a real human with a real card with a real address with details all matching, then disputing a payment they themselves made for a product they received.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#194

Post by soco »

lxgr wrote: post #184
fweimer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over here, it's common that consumers don't have a direct relationship with the card company. I'm not sure if they would even be able to identify me.

What do you mean by card company? The cardholder’s contractual relationship is always with the card issuer, which is usually a bank or some other financial institution. This is no different in the US. If something on your bill seems off, you contact the one that issued it, i.e. your bank.

Hmm nevertheless my cases were handled by Viseca, not by my issuing bank. I don't know why, is it because of my bank, or my country, but yeah it seems to be different.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#195

Post by lxgr »

soco wrote: post #194
lxgr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by card company? The cardholder’s contractual relationship is always with the card issuer, which is usually a bank or some other financial institution. This is no different in the US. If something on your bill seems off, you contact the one that issued it, i.e. your bank.

Hmm nevertheless my cases were handled by Viseca, not by my issuing bank. I don't know why, is it because of my bank, or my country, but yeah it seems to be different.

Banks can (and often do) outsource chargebacks to their processor or another third party, but never the card network (since that’ll be the entity ruling on the case in the very unlikely case it goes into arbitration).

Viseca seems like it might actually be an issuer directly (it’s also a common model that banks only act as program managers, delegating actual issuance to a different entity) but I’m not familiar with them.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#196

Post by gingerlime »

iririririr wrote: post #149
gingerlime wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Haha, yes. My product is focused on cigar repair, but I know some weed smokers that use cigar glue (mine or other brands) for blunts.

i went the other way, and already repaired more than one dropped cig with a good sheet of pure cellulose wrapping paper. I cannot imagine someone buying a glue for that. but I'm not german.

It’s sold in 20+ countries around the world, not just Germany.

If you’re talking about premium cigars, using paper is possible but kinda ugly. The glue is similar to what rollers use when rolling cigars in the factory. It works well and fits well with the cigar smoking experience.

You don’t have to buy (my) glue. You can make your own and I even share recipes on the website. Ciglue however offers convenience with the dispenser and integrated brush and glue.

(wasn’t expecting to get into details about my product on HN but love how diverse the community is)

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#197

Post by orwin »

gingerlime wrote: post #77
zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

This case was Canada. The US and I imagine Canada are known for the ease of chargebacks. My experience in Europe is that it's a very tough process to even initiate (as a consumer)

My only experience as a European is that I called the support number on my card, they fixed the in 5 minutes, cancelled my card, sent me a new one and set me up with a temporary one.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#198

Post by gingerlime »

orwin wrote: post #197
gingerlime wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This case was Canada. The US and I imagine Canada are known for the ease of chargebacks. My experience in Europe is that it's a very tough process to even initiate (as a consumer)

My only experience as a European is that I called the support number on my card, they fixed the in 5 minutes, cancelled my card, sent me a new one and set me up with a temporary one.

if it was stolen then I guess it’s fairly standard. Disputing specific transactions is much harder though. They ask for evidence you contacted the seller etc and make the process difficult from my very limited experience on the “other end” of the transaction.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#199

Post by Cider9986 »

u8080 wrote: post #192
Cider9986 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, I made a great reply and it never sent–that sucks. I was more nuanced and specific, but I don't want to do it all again. 1. The fees are not awful idk what you mean, I pay between 0.1% and 1% fees on Monero transactions. 2. If the modelling can't manage their risk characteristics, they are by definition a victim of the financial system. I was more talking about people who have been debanked, though. I have a Ru…

>risk to his life from being on the free internet Idk where you are getting this, but "risk to his life from being on the free internet" is total BS.

It's happened in China:

>Gao Yu, a veteran independent journalist and dissident, has been harassed by police repeatedly for visiting and posting on Twitter.

https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_voa-news-china_c...

It's already banned in Russia, it's not crazy to say that you could get in trouble.

Recently they have been cracking down even more. (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr510de17jlo)

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#200

Post by gingerlime »

charcircuit wrote: post #120

>And the bank, naturally, sided with them. How is it natural if DHL had proof of delivery.

Yeah I didn’t really go into it, but I can imagine a bank prefers to take care of their own customer than about a small merchant. I’m definitely frustrated with the whole system. But I expected at least Stripe to try to protect its own customers (merchants).
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