Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud” • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#81

Post by gingerlime » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:34 AM UTC

varenc wrote: post #16

> They told me they don’t use evidence of chargeback abuse from one merchant to create cross-merchant fraud signals, or to take action against the customer’s card, email, or other details for other merchants. I'm surprised they were able to get Stripe to actually state all of this clearly. It's nice that Stripe actually communicates details like this. But you can see the logic behind why many other big companies woul…

No. I would have been far more upset about a vague response. I was still upset that they don't do anything about it.

(it took a bit of back-n-forth to get a clear answer, but I did get a clear one. Their support is still excellent from my experience and communicate well)

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#82

Post by zuzululu » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:37 AM UTC

zonkerdonker wrote: post #71

edflsafoiewq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not going to name those countries outright Why?

[flagged]

why is racism always the go to response for any suggestion that different countries have different valuesand that translates into observable and verifiable behavioral patterns that should be studied and recognized ?

how can it be that all countries and cultures are alike with no room for diversity in ethics and overton window ?

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#83

Post by gingerlime » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:37 AM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #4

Stripe obviously records data around friendly fraud, (At minimum they implement Visa Compelling Evidence 3.0 https://support.stripe.com/questions/how-does-stripe-support... ) and since you did not include screenshots of the messages sent by Stripe support I suspect they were saying something carefully noncommittal and legally compliant to get you to go away, which then got spun into an outraged blog post.

Happy to share their responses verbatim. It was a rather long back-n-forth. Here's a snippet from the latest email, which I think makes it clear that they do not use the evidence I provided:

    I can assure you that I will take note of your feedback and pass it to our team. Your point about post-transaction abuse detection is valid - while Stripe has robust network-level fraud detection, there does appear to be a gap in utilizing merchant-provided evidence of confirmed fraud to protect the broader merchant ecosystem. This type of feedback from merchants who have direct evidence is valuable for improving these systems.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#84

Post by plantain » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:37 AM UTC

shash7 wrote: post #63

zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

+1 almost all from the US.

The strongest signal is whether they use an eBank/app that has a one-click button to report transactions as fraudulent. The Apple card(?) seems especially prevalent.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#85

Post by gingerlime » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:39 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #8

bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? Do you think it matters what stripe said? What is something that they could've said that wouldn't have justified the outraged blog post?

The author thinks it matters what Stripe said, since they chose to use it as the title for their blog post. To the extent that it was just meant to be a lament that it's hard to be a small online merchant in an era of strong consumer protections, sure, I sympathize. But they seem to think it's a problem with Stripe that could be fixed if Stripe behaved better.

Author here. What makes you think Stripe cannot do better here?

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#86

Post by gingerlime » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:41 AM UTC

NDlurker wrote: post #13

So I can crack open a Backwoods, stick my weed in there, and then glue back together with Ciglue? That's pretty cool.

Thank you. Haha, yes. My product is focused on cigar repair, but I know some weed smokers that use cigar glue (mine or other brands) for blunts.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#87

Post by reactordev » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:41 AM UTC

A friend of mine has a "1 dispute and your banned rule"... sounds like it could help in this situation. He'll catch wind of someone disputing they didn't receive a product he makes, despite his OCD with packaging, and gets a chargeback. He sits down each week with all the chargebacks he's gotten and bans them from future sales. It's not often but when he does, he complains about it when I see him.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#88

Post by zuzululu » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:44 AM UTC

Cider9986 wrote: post #31

zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

Accept crypto for those countries, it doesn't have chargebacks and helps those vulnerable to the financial system.

I dont follow. If regular finance to a country is that much distanced from global financial oversight and treaties where crypto (with awful spreads) becomes the norm that doesnt necessarily mean they are victims of international financial order but that regular financially modeling simply cannot manage their unique risk characteristics

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#89

Post by nradov » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:44 AM UTC

Cider9986 wrote: post #34

hdndjsbbs wrote: post #25

I had a customer do something similar with a thousand-dollar product. They had signed for delivery and provided no evidence, but banks always side with the customer.

I thought that banks were less likely to side with the customer compared with credit cards.

Most credit cards are issued by banks.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#90

Post by hdra » Wed, May 27, 2026, 3:46 AM UTC

shash7 wrote: post #63

zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

I've got 13 chargebacks over the last 4 years for my biz. Out of these, 10 came from US based cards. The other 3 came from Australia(my country). Be careful when taking verbatim advice from internet strangers.

not to mention, thats pretty bad advice for these chargeback frauds. not gonna deny some regions have higher risk of frauds, but these are mostly high-volume automated schemes.

in the case of these "friendly fraud" schemes, they are much more likely to come from more developed regions with strong consumer protection laws like the NA.

if anything in many of those "high risk" regions, chargeback are much less common because fewer consumer protection law e.g. banks would automatically reject chargebacks for transactions with 3DS OTP.