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Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

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Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#81

Post by lutusp »

philwelch wrote: post #60
lutusp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You entered into an agreement with this school district. If it's a public school, the agreement cannot include anything that violates a student's civil rights. Under the equal access rules currently in force, the fact that a student chooses to attend a particular school is not a factor -- her civil rights must be protected no matter what choices she makes.

Pray tell, what civil rights are violated by carrying RFID badges?

Privacy, and the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure. Essentially, the Fourth Amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

The Fourth Amendment is often cited in cases of this kind -- it has been interpreted in modern times as assuring some protections against unreasonable or unjustified surveillance.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#82

Post by lutusp »

philwelch wrote: post #68
warmwaffles wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's talking about the fact they are able to track where the students are "roughly" in the school, and that the RFID badges hold some personal information in them. To which, I'm not sure what kind of personally identifying information is on them other than a UUID. All speculation and snake oil

> He's talking about the fact they are able to track where the students are "roughly" in the school Isn't that exactly what schools have always tried to do? > and that the RFID badges hold some personal information in them Isn't that exactly the information schools have always had?

These aren't arguments that can be used to increase the level of surveillance without explicit legislation and/or an explicit ruling by a court.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#83

Post by lutusp »

freehunter wrote: post #58
lutusp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it a basic civil right? A very good question. The answer is that courts decide this sort of thing, and the notion of "civil rights" is a moving target over time. But if her civil rights are violated, then the fact that she volunteers to be there instead of another school should not be allowed to interfere with the judgment. How am I so sure? Well, as one example, African-Americans must be allowed to attend the s…

I agree that I would like the courts to decide on this. We're all armchair observers just making our commentary the way we see it. I'm not certain that the Civil Rights Act comes into play here, though. The problem there is that the government were mandating that people had to go to different schools just based on their skin color. On the other hand, magnet schools are inherently and legally discriminatory; they disc…

> I'm not certain that the Civil Rights Act comes into play here, though.

But it does. This person wants to attend a particular school, but that school violates her civil rights as a precondition for attendance. It's a clear violation of the civil rights rulings that were handed down in the 1960s. It would be like requiring people to take a literacy test before voting, but only in particular places. Beyond the civil rights implications, it violates the equal protection clause of the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause

> The problem there is that the government were mandating that people had to go to different schools just based on their skin color.

Yes, but that's coincidental to the legal issues. If the people in question had been women, or another minority, or of a particular religious persuasion, or any number of other traits, the same laws would apply. Race has always been coincidental to the legal arguments.

> On the other hand, magnet schools are inherently and legally discriminatory; they discriminate on talent.

Sometimes true, but a red herring in this case, because the girl is qualified to attend. Because she is qualified, her civil rights become the issue.

> Magnet high schools are not a right.

Actually if it's a public school, yes, it's a right. The reason? If a particular person is qualified to attend this publicly funded institution, then any other equally qualified person should be able to attend also, and if not, the school had better have an excellent reason why not.

If it were a private school, the rules would be different, but this is a publicly funded school, therefore constitutional protections are in force.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#84

Post by lutusp »

mcantelon wrote: post #73
warmwaffles wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and yes. I see the issue she's having with the RFID but I also don't understand why she is having such a problem. Her phone tracks her, facebook tracks her, google, etc... it's a problem yes, but I can't do anything about it other than complain. I think the family just wanted to get a quick window of fame and be able to tell people "Ya, we forced the HS to get rid of those RFIDs."

>Her phone tracks her, facebook tracks her, google, etc... it's a problem yes, but I can't do anything about it other than complain. Noone is forced to use a mobile phone nor Facebook nor Google. >I think the family just wanted to get a quick window of fame and be able to tell people "Ya, we forced the HS to get rid of those RFIDs." Or they could, you know, care about the issues.

> Or they could, you know, care about the issues.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they're teaching their daughter an important lesson in civics -- and teaching the rest of us too.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#85

Post by pavel_lishin »

dchichkov wrote: post #69
no_fans_please wrote: post #20

I must say, I'm extremely worried about the USA, and this article demonstrates why. Should we really commend someone for being unable to tell the difference between an electronic component & radio transmission system, and the magical 'mark of the beast'? I'm also pretty sure that forcing people to wear tags is going to be overturned by a judge on the point of religious freedom, not based on a common sense decision. A…

I think that this girl can tell electronic components from magic perfectly well. It is you, who is unable to understand what she is saying. Yes, she is using language with religious roots and very expressive 'mark of the beast' phrase. But these are just words, part of the language and culture. Fact that she uses them doesn't make her stupid or insane.

I hesitate to use the words "stupid" or "insane", but she literally believes that a piece of plastic with some microchips is the work of an evil magical being who wants to wait until she dies and then torment her, based on something that sounds like a mistranslated mushroom trip.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#86

Post by phene »

grecy wrote: post #41
vaadu wrote: post #4

Student’s Social Security number? Why does the school need the student's SSN? Why not just brand the kids?

Do kids even have SSN's? In the countries I've lived and worked in, you don't get such a number until you want to file a tax return, so usually somewhere around age 15 (depending on the country)

Children get SSNs shortly after birth because parents require them in order to claim the children as dependents on tax returns. When the requirement was introduced, millions of children suddenly disappeared...

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#87

Post by crpatino »

PacketNinja wrote: post #25

This is crap. How many of us have to where some I similar at work? Don't suspend her for not wearing it, just keep her out if class if she doesn't check in with it. Her attendance will falter in the system and she'll be expelled for lack of attendance. This is not big brother, its what every sane parent wants to know: where is my kid?

I am sure every sane parent also wants to know "who else knows where my kid is" and "with which other third parties this someone else may (knowingly or otherwise) share that information".

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#88

Post by nateabele »

grecy wrote: post #72
fleitz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it's time the school district brought back the flag salute to better illustrate the relation it wishes to create between citizens and their state.

As a foreigner, I was shocked to see kids recite the pledge of allegiance when I first came to America.

Perhaps, but it's the only remaining societal fixture reminding anybody that the US isn't supposed to be a democracy, even if no one realizes it.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#89

Post by freehunter »

lutusp wrote: post #83
freehunter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that I would like the courts to decide on this. We're all armchair observers just making our commentary the way we see it. I'm not certain that the Civil Rights Act comes into play here, though. The problem there is that the government were mandating that people had to go to different schools just based on their skin color. On the other hand, magnet schools are inherently and legally discriminatory; they disc…

> I'm not certain that the Civil Rights Act comes into play here, though. But it does. This person wants to attend a particular school, but that school violates her civil rights as a precondition for attendance. It's a clear violation of the civil rights rulings that were handed down in the 1960s. It would be like requiring people to take a literacy test before voting, but only in particular places. Beyond the civil…

I would love to see this kind of back and forth in the opinions of the Supreme Court. You're making some interesting arguments I haven't thought of. Unfortunately with the religious freedom claim, I doubt we'd see this come up.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#90

Post by maratd »

jamesbritt wrote: post #67
Steveism wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's for sure. It's no wonder why they're so hated in society.

Are they? They're certainly hated by various subgroups but I don't think this is terribly wide-spread. I get the feeling more people think the security theater is for real and is stopping actual atacks.

> I get the feeling more people think the security theater is for real and is stopping actual atacks.

I haven't spoken to a single person who thinks that's the case.

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