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Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

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Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#51

Post by freehunter »

antonID wrote: post #43
betterunix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minors are more easily indoctrinated into accepting that sort of thing. Employers who do this are being just as antisocial and psychopathic as this school district; the difference is that adults are mature enough to say, "This is not right," whereas children will grow up thinking, "This is how the world works, I better accept it."

"Employers who do this are being just as antisocial and psychopathic as this school district" Because using rfid badges to unlock doors at an office building/control and log access to server rooms, etc is a psychopathic and antisocial thing to do

As an information security professional, I am so glad we use RFID badges. I want to know who is getting into my secure datacenter and when, and be able to revoke that right with the click of a button if things start going pear-shaped with their activities.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#52

Post by sp332 »

eCa wrote: post #23
PakG1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.” Out of curiosity, are you more afraid of the government having that goal and enabling that environment or Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc? Why? I think this is an interesting discuss…

You can opt out of Facebook/Google/Foursquare/etc, you can't opt out from your government.

Every time I visit a page with a little FB "Like" button on it, Facebook knows (via a cookie) what page I've visited. They track people even if they don't have accounts. It's not so easy to opt out of that. (I installed ShareMeNot for Firefox but it's not obvious that you can do that.)

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#53

Post by lutusp »

freehunter wrote: post #49
lutusp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't change the legal issue in dispute -- whether someone can be compelled to give up a basic civil right in exchange for attending the school she wants to attend.

Is it a basic civil right? To not be monitored in school? Schools have cameras, they have security guards, they have teachers watching you constantly, they have screen monitoring software on the computers, they have locker searches, and all of these have been upheld as Constitutional because in a school, students have no right to privacy. Whether this particular case (which admittedly is different from other privacy…

> Is it a basic civil right?

A very good question. The answer is that courts decide this sort of thing, and the notion of "civil rights" is a moving target over time.

But if her civil rights are violated, then the fact that she volunteers to be there instead of another school should not be allowed to interfere with the judgment.

How am I so sure? Well, as one example, African-Americans must be allowed to attend the school of their choice, and the argument that they have alternative schools is (in the eyes of the law) insufficient. The south famously argued that African-Americans had their own schools and shouldn't be arguing for admission to other schools. The Supreme Court disagreed.

> The school then gave her another option, which is to return to the school she is legally required to attend rather than the one she is choosing to attend. That seems more than reasonable to me.

Read the history of the U.S. Civil Rights movement, from beginning to end. Then ask yourself whether what you've just said is fair and reasonable.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#54

Post by warmwaffles »

ScottBurson wrote: post #50
philwelch wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judge Whitehead must have never stepped into an office building in the last 10 years. RFID-enabled ID badges are standard at offices around the world and schools are lagging behind if anything.

Ah, but it's one thing to have it done by an employer with which one has voluntarily entered into an agreement; it's quite another to have it done by the government.

You entered into an agreement with this school district. They are testing this out on these two schools. If it passes, the district may put them in the other schools. She is going to a Magnet school, not a standard public school.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#55

Post by lutusp »

warmwaffles wrote: post #54
ScottBurson wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, but it's one thing to have it done by an employer with which one has voluntarily entered into an agreement; it's quite another to have it done by the government.

You entered into an agreement with this school district. They are testing this out on these two schools. If it passes, the district may put them in the other schools. She is going to a Magnet school, not a standard public school.

> You entered into an agreement with this school district.

If it's a public school, the agreement cannot include anything that violates a student's civil rights. Under the equal access rules currently in force, the fact that a student chooses to attend a particular school is not a factor -- her civil rights must be protected no matter what choices she makes.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#56

Post by tjaerv »

Symmetry wrote: post #47
Steveism wrote: post #5

“Regimes in the past have always started with the schools, where they develop a compliant citizenry,” Whitehead continued. “These ‘Student Locator’ programs are ultimately aimed at getting students used to living in a total surveillance state where there will be no privacy, and wherever you go and whatever you text or email will be watched by the government.” This raises a very valid concern. Human beings aren't catt…

You know, my understanding is that when the form of our modern US school system was imported from Prussia many of the people advocating it were praising it's ability to turn out the sort of regimented, disciplined people required to staff factories.

John Taylor Gatto has written extensively on this in his books "Dumbing Us Down" and "The Underground History of American Education". For a synopsis, see e.g. this transcript of a speech he gave:

http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#57

Post by warmwaffles »

lutusp wrote: post #55
warmwaffles wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You entered into an agreement with this school district. They are testing this out on these two schools. If it passes, the district may put them in the other schools. She is going to a Magnet school, not a standard public school.

> You entered into an agreement with this school district. If it's a public school, the agreement cannot include anything that violates a student's civil rights. Under the equal access rules currently in force, the fact that a student chooses to attend a particular school is not a factor -- her civil rights must be protected no matter what choices she makes.

True, however she and her parents signed the forms that the school district sent out about the RFID tags and agreed to the terms. Only after the fact did they start to protest it. Why didn't they protest it from the beginning?

Anyways, there is a magnet school literally right next to Taft HS that she could apply to that doesn't have the RFID tags. In fact, she is going to a school that is further away from where she lives and she should be going to the magnet school Comm Arts

I live in the area that this is talking about. I don't necessarily agree with the RFID tags, but claiming religion is a load of crap.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#58

Post by freehunter »

lutusp wrote: post #53
freehunter wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a basic civil right? To not be monitored in school? Schools have cameras, they have security guards, they have teachers watching you constantly, they have screen monitoring software on the computers, they have locker searches, and all of these have been upheld as Constitutional because in a school, students have no right to privacy. Whether this particular case (which admittedly is different from other privacy…

> Is it a basic civil right? A very good question. The answer is that courts decide this sort of thing, and the notion of "civil rights" is a moving target over time. But if her civil rights are violated, then the fact that she volunteers to be there instead of another school should not be allowed to interfere with the judgment. How am I so sure? Well, as one example, African-Americans must be allowed to attend the s…

I agree that I would like the courts to decide on this. We're all armchair observers just making our commentary the way we see it.

I'm not certain that the Civil Rights Act comes into play here, though. The problem there is that the government were mandating that people had to go to different schools just based on their skin color. On the other hand, magnet schools are inherently and legally discriminatory; they discriminate on talent. You're legally required to attend school, but you can qualify for attendance in a magnet school. They're not telling the girl to go back to the girl's school, or back to the black person's school, they're telling her to go back to the same school everyone else goes to, the normal school, the regular school, the legally mandated school. High school is not an alternative school, magnet high schools are. It's not discrimination to make someone go to a school everyone else goes to. Not everyone gets into a magnet high school; she did, and now she's been disqualified. Magnet high schools are not a right.

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#59

Post by philwelch »

ScottBurson wrote: post #50
philwelch wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judge Whitehead must have never stepped into an office building in the last 10 years. RFID-enabled ID badges are standard at offices around the world and schools are lagging behind if anything.

Ah, but it's one thing to have it done by an employer with which one has voluntarily entered into an agreement; it's quite another to have it done by the government.

You can say that about anything in the school system, be it ID numbers, ID cards, parking passes, library computers with porn blockers, or even having to show up every day. Why single out RFID badges as magical antichrist technology when they're just a high-tech way of taking attendance and restricting access to school facilities?

Re: Judge temporarily saves girl facing suspension for refusing to wear RFID tag

#60

Post by philwelch »

lutusp wrote: post #55
warmwaffles wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You entered into an agreement with this school district. They are testing this out on these two schools. If it passes, the district may put them in the other schools. She is going to a Magnet school, not a standard public school.

> You entered into an agreement with this school district. If it's a public school, the agreement cannot include anything that violates a student's civil rights. Under the equal access rules currently in force, the fact that a student chooses to attend a particular school is not a factor -- her civil rights must be protected no matter what choices she makes.

Pray tell, what civil rights are violated by carrying RFID badges?
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