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Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

torrentfreak.com

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Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#151

Post by yason »

alexkus wrote: post #128
yason wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indirect networking much like Tor or I2P. Translated to BitTorrent, everyone would be using just one extra hop to keep the speeds up but passing around encrypted packages for others would create plausible deniability. You can claim you don't know what the packet that you routed contained, because you can't know that. You can't be held liable for routing traffic per se, much like ISPs aren't liable for routing traffic…

Unless, of course, the authorities seed Tor with a whole bunch of nodes that log everything. No timing attacks required. Tor relies on the fact that even if there's one or two bad apples among the bunch logging everything you're probably going to be safe because you'll go through enough routing nodes that aren't logged for it to be impossible to trace.

Logging isn't enough. You would need to be able to prove that the encrypted blob originated from the potentially infringing IP address and wasn't just merely passing through it. Because if it was the potentially infringing node couldn't have had any clue about what the packet contained.

If all you can see is routing you can't know where packets originate or are destined to. You receive a packet, open your layer of encryption, see where the packet should be going next, log it, and send it forward. You can't possibly know whether the sender created the packet or forwarded it, and you can't possibly know whether the recipient consumed the packet or forwarded it.

You would need to monitor physical network links to determine patterns how the onion style packets travel around.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#153

Post by revorad »

pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

Focusing on harming the labels directly is probably not the best idea, but unfortunately that's what everyone seems to have focused on.

To me the most important question is why do new musicians go to the labels at all? If technology can help at all, it'll probably be by creating solutions that address that question better.

Instead of better tools for distribution and discovery of old label music, it might be better to focus on the tools for creating new music, starting from composing/jamming to recording to releasing the music to listeners.

But, regardless of how good and effective such a technology may be, it will still boil down to the benevolence of the largest successful company that produces such technology.

For example, Amazon has done a great job of dragging books into the 21st century, but its evil colours are beginning to show. Going from paper books to ebooks is a bit like going from Encyclopedia Britannica to the Encarta CD-ROM, only worse because they can be remotely erased. I have high hopes for Wattpad to take us to the Wikipedia stage, but once they're there, who knows how evil they will turn out to be?

Similarly, someone may solve this problem for music temporarily with superior technology, but in the long run, it will come down to how greedy they are.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#154

Post by antidoh »

bct wrote: post #85
antidoh wrote: post #60

Don't buy music controlled by the RIAA. Just don't. The only way to stop them is to starve them. They're major campaign contributors, so the law will never be on our side until they're gone. And by the way, don't download said music from sharing sites or friends. Artists need to see that we won't pay them any attention, with wallets or ears, if they associate with known extortionists.

A boycott isn't made up out of individuals. Doing this is a waste of your effort unless it's part of a focussed campaign.

If you as an individual believe it's the right thing to do, then it's not a waste of time for you.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#155

Post by flyinRyan »

revorad wrote: post #153
pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

Focusing on harming the labels directly is probably not the best idea, but unfortunately that's what everyone seems to have focused on. To me the most important question is why do new musicians go to the labels at all? If technology can help at all, it'll probably be by creating solutions that address that question better. Instead of better tools for distribution and discovery of old label music, it might be better t…

>To me the most important question is why do new musicians go to the labels at all?

For the same reason people would rather release an app in the Apple app store than on the WWW: exposure. Someone with an insane amount of talent will make less money than a mediocre performer backed by a media blitz from the music industry. I'll leave examples up to others to come up with.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#156

Post by flyinRyan »

adamq_q wrote: post #113
pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

Apple and Google have large enough platforms where if they publicized a "direct-to-artist" payment system, you could see it getting a lot of use. Something like that would obviously not be healthy for their relationship with the record labels and would never happen. But you need a large enough platform to make a difference. What about Facebook?

Facebook won't be any good because the labels can just bribe them to turn you in after you use their system to download a song.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#157

Post by flyinRyan »

jasonlotito wrote: post #142
spindritf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there will be a disincentive for artists to sign up with records who indulge in such nonsense No, there won't be. The recording companies will keep doing what they do and the artist will occasionally tweet how awful it is but they can't do anything about it since it's the big bad corporation. The company will take the blame along with its cut.

I've mentioned it before, and I'll say it again: hold the artists accountable. They are the one these organizations are speaking on behalf of. Call them out on their tweets about how they support this directly.

Or do more than call them out. If all the people who posted a useless message would instead avoid buying/watching/listening to anything that involved a certain artist, if we could somehow destroy one big artists career, then no artist would want to be involved.

Basically, use old media's strategy against them: we can't touch the big guys, they're too big. But if we could destroy someone they depend on it would eventually kill them too.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#158

Post by flyinRyan »

billirvine wrote: post #103
gingerjoos wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering if the backlash might actually be a good thing. If this sort of backlash becomes common, there will be a disincentive for artists to sign up with records who indulge in such nonsense. Perhaps the system will adapt such that prosecutions like this would be eliminated.

> there will be a disincentive for artists to sign up with records who indulge in such nonsense Why would a creative person who's primary method of feeding the family are checks from publishers not want their publisher to diligently protect the revenue model?

Because "protecting the revenue model" is destroying the whole market. Instead of "protecting" the existing model, the music industry has to innovate. Doing what they're doing might squeeze out a little cash in the short term but it's a sinking ship and when an alternative breaks out, every artist that isn't part of the new model will be left out just as great bands are left out of the current model now.

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#159

Post by Cass »

steelcm wrote: post #148
benohear wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a lawsuit insurance scheme? Pay $X per month and if you get sued the insurance company will take the case to court and pay any damages. This would kill the effortless €600 extortion scheme, and probably also DDOS the court system. Possible backfire: It makes the labels even more lawsuit happy knowing that there is a pile of cash there if they win, and / or the cash reserves of the insurance are not sufficie…

I doubt this would work. If you are not willing to pay for a CD,DVD, Software...etc why would you shell out on a monthly basis on the off chance that you are caught?

I, and about fifty percent of people I know, would be happy to pay a small monthly sum (say, up to nine euro) to be able to listen to and download any music we want, at any time, without risk of persecution. Ideally, this money would go to support the musicians, but that's not necessarily a requirement. Unfortunately, no such service exists right now - most of the music streaming services only work for the US, streaming's useless to many of us anyway because we listen to music in the car and need it on CD, spotify doesn't have half the musicians we like...

There's lots of grey area between "doesn't ever pay for any media, ever" and "I refuse to pay $ 12 for a single DVD with unskippable ads and warnings if I can get the movie off pirate bay in seven minutes, wtf".

Re: Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl

#160

Post by waterlesscloud »

pg wrote: post #107

This is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at ma…

Distribution is solved. Marketing is not.

Every work of art has its audience. The focus now should be on helping the art and the audience find each other.

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