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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#571

Post by kuboble »

mothballed wrote: post #525
kuboble wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this focuses on the wrong issues. Tin my observation the main advantage of swiss system is the institution of the referendum. It means that every major decision is decided by the people. The elected government decides on the 99.9% other issues. The consequence of this system is that absolute majority of public discourse focuses on the issues and problems and not party affiliation. So e.g. the most consequenti…

You're completely ignoring that the Swiss system itself was a cultural output of that voting block, one they've kept remarkably insular, and with the remnants of this system going back to something like at least the middle ages. And then lucked out in many ways in WWII where most of Europe did not. The system didn't make the 90-95% euro voting block, the 90-95% white euro voting block made and support the Swiss direc…

The system is unique to Switzerland.

But it's not the consequence of the skin color or the neutrality. All European countries have been practically 100% white until not long ago with vastly different outcomes.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#572

Post by jbverschoor »

cortesoft wrote: post #530
efdee wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they haven't been redirected to their bank, verifying with their mobile banking app using a QR code will not work.

So I have to get out my phone every time I use my credit card on my computer?

That’s why we don’t pay 3%+ on all transactions

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#573

Post by ekianjo »

surgical_fire wrote: post #276
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I trust my government (Switzerland) I do, too. I’m not sure I trust Brussels.

I certainly trust the EU a lot more than I trust US corporations.

Do they deserve your trust?

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#574

Post by graemep »

gpvos wrote: post #490
graemep wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have to use a phone or does it work without one? Does it handle credit card payments?

The QR code just contains a URL to a website, so you can also just use that link and a web browser. That website will let you choose which bank you use, and then redirect to your bank's website which will use your bank account directly. I don't think it works with cards at all.

Thanks, that sounds pretty good.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#575

Post by ffritz »

grey-area wrote: post #559
jorisw wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understood. But even then it couldn't be easier than the contactless direct debit we already have.

It could be cheaper though and it also reduces the reliance on an untrustworthy former ally.

The payer couldn't care less about how much the store pays for the transaction. He or she just wants to tap with their phone, and the default here are Visa/MC cards. In addition to the transaction price not being an argument for the payer, Wero also afaik does not have as much consumer protection as (certainly some) credit cards offer. I also bet the average person doesn't understand or care about the whole political dispute either. Again, they just want to pay easily and safely.

I don't think Wero can "win" this from just the merchants side. It's got to be better for the customer's side.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#576

Post by jbverschoor »

carlosjobim wrote: post #271
jonkoops wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After typing your card numbers Yes, but the whole point of Wero is that you don't have to type in a bunch of info that can be easily stolen. With Wero (and many other international solutions), you just scan a code with your phone, and your banking app handles the transactions. The existing legacy solutions are just duct tape on an existing system.

> you just scan a code with your phone, And authorize yourself with the banking app, and, and... It's not less complicated than auto filling credit/debit card details with your finger print on your phone or laptop. For consumers, Wero, Pix, and similar systems only have down sides for online use. The most important down side is that you can't reclaim your funds if you've been the victim of fraud. Which you can when p…

Has nothing to do with the steps

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#577

Post by ekianjo »

Fnoord wrote: post #470
Lionga wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the head of EZB is a convicted criminal with, lets call it interesting, letters to the convicted criminal Sarkozy I am not sure what is plague and what cholera.

Lets see. Gerhard Schroeder, fled to RU. Nicolas Sarkozy, convicted. Silvio Berlusconi, convicted. Geert Wilders, convicted. Slobodan Milošević, convicted. Jean-Marie Le Pen, convicted. Marine Le Pen, convicted. Donald Trump, convicted (pardoned everyone who attempted a coup on Jan 6 2021). Victor Orban, surely he'll get convicted. Benjamin N., Vladimir P.: wanted by ICC. (This excludes cases like Jan Maršálek / Wire…

> attempted a coup

funny everyone forgot to bring guns for the coup

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#578

Post by jbverschoor »

bux93 wrote: post #269
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

Wero is super confusing. They're in the business of acquiring different methods (I don't even know if they always buy them outright or if they merge or they are just associated in some way), branding them ALL wero, and announcing that every payment in every channel will be rolled out SOON via wero, without ever offering specifics. So in The Netherlands wero is the new name of eCommerce payments, but in another countr…

iDEAL is a killer name

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#579

Post by tialaramex »

gorbypark wrote: post #249
SirMaster wrote: post #192

But does this act like a debit account? What I like about a credit card are things like you are buying on credit, not using money in your account directly. So in the case of fraud or issue a chargeback it's been much easier to get credit card transactions reverted rather than get money put back into my debit account. Also I like credit cards for the rewards, cash back or especially travel points. But also things like…

> But does this act like a debit account? Yeah, it's a debit account. I'm in Spain and use Bizum frequently. It's just a "pay from your bank account" system. You mostly type in your phone number, get a notification (or text, depends on the bank) and open up your banking app and approve the transaction. You can send money person to person as well. Many European countries have a similar system. Wero is "just" stitching…

The nasty element of that reward situation, and why I am deeply in favour of the European choice here, is that while some people get nice rewards, some people just pay much higher prices and don't get rewards. So this actually worsens the divide between rich and poor to an extent, and that's just bad policy.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#580

Post by locallost »

The report of my demise was greatly exaggerated.

I see 10 people in my address book that I could theoretically send money via Wero. Hundreds of people in my address book have a Visa or a MasterCard. It's not a bad thing to have competition and ambition, but to say goodbye is premature to say the least. Online payments especially between regular people (so not businesses) are still dominated by PayPal. And even online shopping is dominated by PayPal although Apple and Google Pay are taking a bigger slice because it's just so convenient. And they're just again using Visa and MasterCard.

I'm not sure Wero was developed to be very practical. I registered with my phone number, but now have second thoughts because I don't want to give my phone number to strangers when buying on second hand marketplaces. But guess what - you cannot change it. You cannot register a second number. It just feels very rigid in its design.

There were other systems already that were supposed to do the same. Girocard/EC... All dead and buried now.

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