Live data from Hacker News

Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

491–500 of 811 posts

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#491
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt so, because i need to type god-knows-how-many characters by hand, while visually separating them into chunks by 4, then explicitly authorize the receiver. Oh, and explicitly authorise the country

> then explicitly authorize the receiver. Oh, and explicitly authorise the country I've never had to do any of this, and I quire frequently send SEPA payments from Latvia.

Well i am in France, and what I said is factually true for some banks; at least mine (LCL)

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#492
post #475
post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

Providing credit cards online even by phone for 20 years I have never had any issues, or known anyone who had issues. The few occasions my cards were compromised (all my own fault): a restaurant in Vienna pre Covid when cash was king in Europe, I insisted to use the card and the waiter took it inside lol. Got a 4000k cruise booked a few weeks later. Another time at an ATM in Brazil, I even noticed the suspects around…

But most people here don't want credit cards; risk of spending what you don't have just works differently over there outside mortgages. And then this new stuff is just objectively better: debit cards, even though you will get the money back mostly, makes it a hassle as you basically pay the lowest fees possible and never credit so fraud really sucks. And makes no sense; away with those cards; we do not need them anymore.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#493
post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

> iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work Is it? I see it more as an underwhelming fix for SEPA Direct Debit's inability to verify payment data synchronously. * iDeal doesn't support basic features like pre-authorization. I'm not even sure if it supports setting up a payment agreement without triggering an immediate payment at all (pretty sure it didn't, when we inte…

> pre-authorization

If you need pre-authorization use credit, iDeal is a debit system.

> It hands over the customer's IBAN

SEPA Direct Debit requires my consent one time on my banking app.

Giving out your IBAN number is generally safer then giving out your Credit card number, date of expiration and cvv code.

Additionally it allows for things like name to account checking, therefore making it less likely you will be scammed.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope I get to live in such a place some day.

[flagged]

I think this focuses on the wrong issues.

Tin my observation the main advantage of swiss system is the institution of the referendum.

It means that every major decision is decided by the people. The elected government decides on the 99.9% other issues.

The consequence of this system is that absolute majority of public discourse focuses on the issues and problems and not party affiliation.

So e.g. the most consequential election isn't the one where you have to choose the guy who will make everything great again, but e.g. the referendum if the country should spend billions over the next decades on the new tunnel under alps instead of other infrastructure projects.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#495
post #476
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just not sure this directly competes with MC/Visa the way the article suggests. Didn't other EU countries already have something similar to iDEAL, as opposed to using credit cards? And now we're just consolidating them? Also, isn't this just about online payments? Who's going to pay for a coffee with either Wero or a credit card? AFAIK most EU consumers use direct debit cards for in-store payments (those countrie…

I can only speak for my countries, but almost all payment terminals now have the option to scan a QR code with your mobile banking app to pay using Wero.

That's good. Maybe I haven't seen it because direct debit via contactless (including Apple Pay) is faster, hence the default, where I am.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#496
post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

Yesterday I was renewing my vehicle registration through my US states website. They offered a range of payment options using embedded options on the site. The direct bank account option had the lowest fee but when I tried it I was immediately scared of the security. They used a 3rd party bank account transfer provider that asked me what bank I used and looked like it was going to prompt me for my login info before it…

When using a government website, you were intimidated by the security posture of... Plaid? (Genuine question, maybe this was some other provider but Plaid's aggregator tool is the most common place I see this pop up in real life for ACH)

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After typing your card numbers Yes, but the whole point of Wero is that you don't have to type in a bunch of info that can be easily stolen. With Wero (and many other international solutions), you just scan a code with your phone, and your banking app handles the transactions. The existing legacy solutions are just duct tape on an existing system.

Does it mean that instead of depending on the Visa/Mastercard duopoly you now depend on the Google/Apple duopoly?

If using a phone, yes, but then you probably already did.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the other way around. You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly if they are bad. You have very, very coarse-grained control with the government every few years.

Like others said that choice is not really given in this case. Also with the government option it wouldn’t mean that you can’t still use other methods - for example in brasil credit card or cash work just fine, PIX is just one (very convenient) option.

Do corner stores (small informal convenience stores) in Brasil usually accept PIX? I assume they all cash-only.

Also: What is PIX uptake/penetration like in the countryside? China is shocking how fast that countryside wet/farmer's markets started accepting AliPay. Literally, you can buy a kilo of pumpkin (namguo) using nothing but your mobile phone with AliPay, and the old lady running the stand (in a wet market) probably has a 6th grade education. (No hate on that!)

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#499
post #187

That's a pretty optimistic take. I'm a bit more cautious myself: The motivation is obviously higher than ever, but it's hardly a done deal. There are still many obstacles ahead: Contactless payments (Apple does not provide any card emulation NFC access to the Apple Watch, for example, and only limited access to iPhones), chargeback handling, offline payments (a recent priority of the EU under the larger umbrella of d…

> Apple does not provide any card emulation NFC access to the Apple Watch, for example, and only limited access to iPhones

It would be nice if we weren't also locked into American tech but that's a whole other ballgame.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#500
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lagarde is not a convicted criminal. She was convicted for negligence, but this is not a criminal conviction.

[flagged]

Why use a LLM when you got Wikipedia [1]. Which references an article in The Guardian [2]:

> A French court convicted the head of the International Monetary Fund and former government minister, who had faced a €15,000 (£12,600) fine and up to a year in prison. But it decided she should not be punished and that the conviction would not constitute a criminal record. On Monday evening the IMF gave her its full support.

> The verdict came as a surprise as even the public prosecutor had admitted the evidence against Lagarde was “weak” during a five-day trial last week. Jean-Claude Marin told the court Lagarde’s actions fell into the category of politics and not criminality and called for her to be acquitted.

If the public prosecutor admits the evidence is weak, then I take that at face value. I'm open to evidence of the contrary, but without such, I just have to assume the case was weak.

It does strike me as odd that she was convicted. I suppose the evidence wasn't negligible.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Lagarde#Conviction_o...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/christine-laga...

Post reply on HN