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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#511

Post by Fnoord »

jeroenhd wrote: post #460
underlipton wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central bank is governed by a direct mandate from the government (and, effectively, the entire population, when dealing with a democracy). Commercial and investment banks are beholden to their board and shareholders. There's a clear conflict of interest in trying to dump a service that should be available to everyone onto a business with narrower concerns.

I have been using iDeal for many years now and have yet to see any of the downsides of it being a product of a commercial bank. Perhaps it's a difference in banking culture between different countries; I would certainly not put the same trust and faith in a Wero alternative set up by American banks, that's for sure. Banks are beholden to policy from the central bank and financial authorities. Payment fees are capped,…

You cannot do a chargeback on iDeal, but I don't think that is related to it being a product of commercial banks.

The American companies Mastercard and Visa are subject to American rule of law. In the case of a criminal or authoritarian president, such is an issue. You can see how Russian assets got frozen and SWIFT stopped working for Russia after they did the full scale invasion of Ukraine.

Should the USA invade Greenland, they could stop bank payments done via Mastercard or Visa networks.

So for sovereignty, we are better off without USA. We should also transfer our gold and other assets out of USA, since the country is moving towards fascism.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#512

Post by CPLX »

rozap wrote: post #337
sschueller wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of making money. It doesn't mean that governments don't make mistakes but the primary goal is to serve its people. That is what government is for in a functioning democracy. A functioning government is of the people for the people.

[flagged]

Americans are pretty aware that government by large, multinational, unaccountable corporations sucks and has basically all of the downsides of big government without any of the accountability upsides.

American media may be less likely to share that narrative with you. But the actual people figured this out a while ago and they're mad.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#513

Post by throwaway2037 »

aipatselarom wrote: post #391
gloosx wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the West of what? Culturally and historically it's a Western country, yes, but politically and economically it's an Eastern country – founding member of BRICS and a developing economy. I think the author of the parent comment used "Western" term referring to ideological and economic grouping

>on the West of what? On the West of every single country in Europe, to start with. Don't take this the wrong way, but have you looked at a world map? I ask since a significant chunk of people from the US cannot find Mexico on a map ... Aside from its very evident geographic location , Brazil was the site of the first lasting European colony in the Americas established by Portugal. People in Brazil speak Portuguese[1…

    > I ask since a significant chunk of people from the US cannot find Mexico on a map ...
I love these comments. Don't worry: A "significant chunk of people" from Europe also cannot find Mexico on a map. Really, these comments say nothing. They are like "man on the street with a microphone" gotchas. Anybody under 30 years old has a mobile phone with Internet: They open their maps app, and search for Mexico. Done: Borders the southwestern United States.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#514

Post by [deleted] »

gnfargbl wrote: post #65
kome wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ahahah! so true. those names are silly. also, French and Spanish can already send money for free via IBAN / SEPA

Ah yes, Pierre will surely have no issues paying for his baguette et croissant by filling in the boulangerie's IBAN on his mobile phone and waiting 15 minutes for them to check receipt.

[deleted]

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#515

Post by gpvos »

anal_reactor wrote: post #280
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

> Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. For some reason, most Dutch people are convinced that the way things work in the Netherlands is the gold standard of how things should work in general, and are very hostile to solutions from other countries even if those solutions are better by any sensible metric. This is es…

3. Yeah, the previous system we used was just too cheap and efficient. Credit cards are still not common.

4. We're indeed a bit later than elsewhere, but there are many now.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#516

Post by senordevnyc »

tamirzb wrote: post #384
jfengel wrote: post #350

(In French.) That could be a massive hassle for American tourists, who will still mostly have Visa and Mastercard. I'm sure that there will be some kind of solution -- I suspect Google Pay and Apple Pay will support the new network. But I'll have to keep an eye out. I might even have to start bringing cash. I used to make that the very first thing I did on landing. The last few times I didn't get any cash at all.

This is already an issue for tourists in many countries that have their own payment system (e.g. Brazil, India, Singapore, Thailand). In some of them you have companies that came up with products for tourists that allow them to pay but they usually come with fees. From what I know the majority of tourists in these countries just travel with cash.

I've never had a problem paying with cards in Singapore or Thailand, although it's been a few years since I've been to Thailand.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#517

Post by fooyc »

jorisw wrote: post #481

I think the headline is misleading to the point of being childish. It describes a consolidation of _online_ payment systems that are currently quite fragmented in the EU. It does nothing about in-store payments. Direct debit cards (10x as popular as credit cards in the EU) are often still MC/Visa powered, and the fastest way to pay contactless (even if that is via Apple Pay).

Online and in-store payments will follow in 2027, as per the article

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#519

Post by chpatrick »

SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #282
SomeUserName432 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. You lack the inherent fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor protection that Visa/Mastercard provides. Bought something online and didn't receive your product? With PIX you're SOL, with Visa/Mastercard you get a chargeback.

That is by design. It separates the payment processor so it does just that, just payments. It is like money, once you give it to someone else there is no automatic way to fish it back from their pocket to yours. The correct avenue to deal with fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor is the small claims court (or civil court, or criminal court). The moment you start burdening the payment processor with the roles o…

If I get sent a fake (or no) product by someone halfway around the world there's absolutely no way I'm getting my money back in small claims court.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#520

Post by throw-the-towel »

p2detar wrote: post #49
kome wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ahahah! so true. those names are silly. also, French and Spanish can already send money for free via IBAN / SEPA

That's not the point at all. Currently I'm using paypal to send money to friends when we split dinner or share other costs. I'd like to use a similar European service instead and not go through a ceremony to open my banking app, initiate transfer, write the recipient's IBAN, confirm and wait a day for the transfer to take place.

> write the recipient's IBAN,

You can do it once, and save in in your bank app.

> wait a day for the transfer to take place.

Isn't instant SEPA required to be supported by all banks now?

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