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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

281–290 of 811 posts

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#281
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > A Frenchman using Wero will be able to transfer money to a Spanish friend on Bizum, with the same simplicity as a domestic payment. SEPA Instant Payments also solves that.

I doubt so, because i need to type god-knows-how-many characters by hand, while visually separating them into chunks by 4, then explicitly authorize the receiver. Oh, and explicitly authorise the country

> then explicitly authorize the receiver. Oh, and explicitly authorise the country

I've never had to do any of this, and I quire frequently send SEPA payments from Latvia.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#282
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. But this is a big improvement over online CC payment. I lived in the NL and Brazil, so I can compare the two, and while iDEAL is pretty good, PIX is easier to understand, explain, and deal with. PIX has more variants, you can use it for recurrent payment, split payments, financing, cashout and almost all things a CC can do nowadays. I would say Tikkie is almost as good an…

> PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. You lack the inherent fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor protection that Visa/Mastercard provides. Bought something online and didn't receive your product? With PIX you're SOL, with Visa/Mastercard you get a chargeback.

That is by design. It separates the payment processor so it does just that, just payments. It is like money, once you give it to someone else there is no automatic way to fish it back from their pocket to yours. The correct avenue to deal with fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor is the small claims court (or civil court, or criminal court).

The moment you start burdening the payment processor with the roles of judge/referee over all goods and services you end up with the mess we have with CCs where Visa/Mastercard are morality czars that dictate what goods and services are valid or invalid, nuking people and companies out of modern society for their own arbitrary reasons.

Edit: And just to add, you can have "chargeback" for PIX as a separate service, most banks offer PIX insurance that is basically CC chargeback by a different name. But the key is that it is separate from the payment infrastructure itself, it is an insurance service that you contract separately. And that separation ins very important, the insurance company can't roll back transactions arbitrarily, or deny people access to the financial system, they have to pay the victim and then claw back their money in court, which is the appropriate venue to decide who is right or wrong in a transaction.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#283

I am a European (Czech Republic) and I have never heard of any of those (Epis/Bizum/Vipps).

They are generally country specific. But the underlying systems are made for interoperability. You might have an app with a different name in your country

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work when you need to pay for something in person? (what contactless is for)

In some countries there is a payment system that works by generating QR codes at checkout and scanning those with your phone. I don't know if Wero intends to also support those, but it could make for a direct integration into live checkout. I think the Digital Euro initiative is closer to replacing contactless payments than Wero is, but it'll depend on the country I think.

IMHO, QR codes are a big step back from contactless and appeared in countries that didn't have widespread card adoption (e.g. China),

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > A Frenchman using Wero will be able to transfer money to a Spanish friend on Bizum, with the same simplicity as a domestic payment. SEPA Instant Payments also solves that.

Yes, the only difference is that you need to communicate your bank account number and likely your legal name.

> you need to communicate your bank account number

in Latvia we need to do this for domestic payments anyway. We use IBAN even for domestic payments..

> and likely your legal name.

not mandatory. If provided, the bank tells you whether the recipient name matches the account, but if not, you can proceed with the payment anyway.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#287
post #64
post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

There is a 3DSecure system for existing Visa, Mastercard, and American Express. After typing your card numbers, the transaction doesn’t immediately go through but you are also redirected to the bank’s system. Banks can ask you to use a hardware token, an app, or any other second factor to approve the transaction. It’s a shame that this system isn’t ubiquitous for the rest of us not in EU.

The problem is that these are all US systems.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think any dutchie can vouch that iDeal has been amazing. I would also like to add that Wise has been amazing for american payments. I needed it for Anthropic at the time, and this worked good enough

Certainly better and easier to say than Chipknip!

RIP chipknip. But let’s appreciate its ambition: electronic payments without being online.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a little authoritarian for many Western countries, I imagine.

I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of making money. It doesn't mean that governments don't make mistakes but the primary goal is to serve its people. That is what government is for in a functioning democracy. A functioning government is of the people for the people.

I hope I get to live in such a place some day.
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