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Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

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Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#231

Post by drzaiusx11 »

nlitened wrote: post #208
drzaiusx11 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We usually call these our "safe foods" and yes, it is a very real problem for many of us in the autistic community, specifically around nutritional deficiencies. In a similar vein, as a child I went several years just eating plain Cheerios. For a close friend it was chicken nuggets.

> as a child I went several years just eating plain Cheerios. You mean your parents were letting you eat just plain Cheerios? Otherwise I don’t understand what you mean at all.

"letting me" is hardly how I'd put it. More like I would refuse to eat any and all food unless committed to a hospital stay. Eating Cheerios and taking supplements was a compromise for my exhausted parents and they were more at a loss of what else to do. I don't think you understand what living with someone with moderate to severe autism is like. It's not being a "willful child" it's an entirely different experience than what most parents are exposed to.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#232

Post by dgeiser13 »

dathinab wrote: post #167
dimes wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not going to pretend to be an expert here, but I remember a study that found gut bacteria composition predicted whether or not an individual was chocolate-craving or not in individuals eating identical diets: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17929959

putting aside what others have commented about the truastability of studies and similar - what all studies show is some vague "craving" for something generic, e.g. the link between iron deficiency and craving for ice - but what you see in autists is often a far stronger effect and not just for eating something, but also against eating most other food. A craving for chocolate does not remove appetite and willingness t…

Mine is just an anecdotal experience but I have Asperger's and the reason I eat the same food is not about disliking other food. I actually like most food. I eat the same stuff because:

1) Eating the same food frequently means I don't have to spend any of my cognitive cycles on deciding what to eat.

2) I know that this food will sit alright with my digestive system. Everyone I know personally on the spectrum has stress-related digestive issues.

For snacks and small meals I will eat citrus or microwave a small sweet potato and this helps with Vitamin C.

Autistic adults are not children and using dino-shaped fish sticks probably does not represent most adults on the spectrum.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#233

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

dahart wrote: post #230
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in English and many other languages as well - pretty much all Germanic languages Absolutely not. In German itself it's "gegen" - "against". In French and Spanish you definitely wouldn't just omit "treatment" from "traitement de/pour"/"tratamiento de/por" and expect the meaning to not change, and both sometimes would use "contra", though less likely. > You seem to be failing to grasp that someone who says something…

It’s a bit late in your argument to plausibly claim you were joking, if that’s what you are implying; if that was your first reply I’d maybe have believed it. Outside of that, you did use English wrong; to a native speaker “Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials” is obviously discussing an experimental treatment. There’s nothing outrageous or clickbait about it, it’s quite clear. Nobody said…

Never claimed I did. My first message, however, literally says the title is hilarious or outrageous, depending on your personality, all due to the ambiguity. I tried to make fun of it, which landed obviously flat. Well, what a shame.

You're really trying a bit too hard to prove a point, being just slightly condescending in the process, giving strangers life advice all while missing to address the specific argumentative points where you happened do be factually mistaken.

Mayhaps it's your idea of fun, then happy to entertain you.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#234

Post by DANmode »

jtc331 wrote: post #128
toddmorey wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! My son who has autism would eat anything we put in front of him until age 3, when his weight, appetite and health suddenly and alarmingly crashed. Ever since that episode, he's had a much more restrictive diet and food preferences. Night and day. They never successfully identified what happened. Just diagnosed it generally as failure to thrive.

There’s some research on sudden onset autism being treated with antifungals; so at least sometimes a sudden change may be the result of something very specific in the gut.

Azole antifungals destabilize biofilms,

often allowing the body to get a good run at any low-level chronic infections which have nested and protected themselves,

able to leave the biofilmed region and wreak havoc - even if only intermittently.

Very interesting, this impact of antifungals on longterm bacterial infections! Specifically known to be effective off-label for Bartonella.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#235

Post by DANmode »

Aurornis wrote: post #154
jtc331 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s some research on sudden onset autism being treated with antifungals; so at least sometimes a sudden change may be the result of something very specific in the gut.

There is not reasonable evidence supporting the idea that autism can be treated with antifungals. Case reports are unreliable due to placebo effect. The antifungal myth has been tested by too many well-meaning parents with no results.

Telling people to just ignore microbes and the microbiome,

to stop pulling levers when they are not enjoying their time,

is medical injustice.

How long ago was it you were in threads calling the treatment method in TFA an unfounded crackpot myth?

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#236

Post by DANmode »

krisoft wrote: post #191
kjkjadksj wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loose and unsatisfying stool?

How do you know that is a “gut ecosystem collapse” as opposed to hypermotility? Or an overgrowth of the gut ecosystem? Or a problem with the intestinal lining? Observing that if you eat/drink something specific then you get the shits is valid. Concluding that it is due to a specific mechanism is not valid unless you have something objective like a test supporting that. It’s like if your train is late and you just con…

Ummm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…?

Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it.

Encourage others to do the same.

Not a controversial take!

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#237

Post by DANmode »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #129
directevolve wrote: post #56

Many autistic children have extremely limited diets. For example, a geneticist friend of mine saw a case where an autistic child had been referred for genetic testing because of horrific, chronic, spontaneous wounds on gums and skin. Turned out to be scurvy, because he had exclusively eaten Wheat Thins for the last 3-4 years, which aren’t fortified with vitamin C. I would fully expect that a monotonous diet leads to…

We usually call these our "safe foods" and yes, it is a very real problem for many of us in the autistic community, specifically around nutritional deficiencies. In a similar vein, as a child I went several years just eating plain Cheerios. For a close friend it was chicken nuggets.

Cheerios test high for Glyphosate,

that’s not going to help any.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#238

Post by dacops »

Muromec wrote: post #197
dacops wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buzz off. If you were trying to make a joke, it didn't land. It scans as ableist twat.

Which part of this you think is a joke?

It was either a genuine ableist comment or a ham fisted attempt at sarcasm poking fun at ableist folks.

I see now it was the former.

Edit: Pre-empting the inevitable "how is this ableist?":

I don't mind the use of a reclaimed slur, I'm a big proponent of that, tbh. I use them all the time. What's ableist is the idea that spouses have to deal with their partners. The idea the autism must be a negative in a relationship removes agency from autistic people. My spouse is not my nurse, I am not someone they have to "deal with".

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#239

Post by pohl »

DANmode wrote: post #236
krisoft wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that is a “gut ecosystem collapse” as opposed to hypermotility? Or an overgrowth of the gut ecosystem? Or a problem with the intestinal lining? Observing that if you eat/drink something specific then you get the shits is valid. Concluding that it is due to a specific mechanism is not valid unless you have something objective like a test supporting that. It’s like if your train is late and you just con…

Ummm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…? Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it . Encourage others to do the same. Not a controversial take!

[Gut Flora Summit banner]

“But what if it’s a big hoax and we create solid stools for nothing?”

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#240

Post by DANmode »

pohl wrote: post #239
DANmode wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm…because all of those symptoms you listed are symptoms of gut dysbiosis…? Why do you need to know what the mechanism is to avoid mistakes? - if something fucks you, don’t do it . Encourage others to do the same. Not a controversial take!

[Gut Flora Summit banner] “But what if it’s a big hoax and we create solid stools for nothing?”

Seriously, though!

This demand for peer-reviewed evidence in place of observation of known and basic mechanisms is out of control.

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