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Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

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Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#111
post #42

>> In early 2022 Krajmalnik-Brown and colleagues patented a specific bacterial formulation and spun-off a commercial company called Gut-Brain Axis Therapeutics. I was a little surprised to see this. So the university researchers use time and money from the university to make a discovery, extending on previous published research, and then patent it and start their own for-profit? Excuse my ignorance, but is that how i…

I think the university gets a cut. Kinda like how Gatorade is making I can’t remember which university incredible amounts of money for the last several decades.

Florida. The name comes from the name of their athletic teams: The Gators.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries the number of kids born through c-section are very high, more than half the kids in Brazil are born that way for example, so definitely people can be healthy without getting it from their mothers.

I read it is a practice these days to do this fecal "rub" for newborns as a way to compensate for the C-section lack of it. I do not know if it happens in Brazil. Another factor to consider.

It's not

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#113
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the university researchers use time and money from the university Don’t worry, the money is usually coming from taxpayers so the universities don’t have to dip into their endowments

Funny thing is, that may be a bigger concern here, that the research is often publicly funded while the uses of that research and the profits that come with them are kept private. It’s complicated and I buy the notion that research improves the economy as a whole, but it is also true that when research gets patented and becomes a billion dollar product, those dollars don’t reduce any taxes directly.

The public funds the research so that it gets done in the first place. It's not a venture investment.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#114
post #85
post #76

Title is a bit misleading. It’s not a fecal transplant. It’s tablets and powder (for the pitt-hopkins cases) of microbes from fecal donors. Consumes orally. More like fecal food?

What did you think a fecal transplant was?

Suppository.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#115
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it also possible that the preference for a monotonous diet is driven by gut makeup?

The microbiome might have some modulating effect, but the fidelity of gut-brain axis communication isn’t so strong that our gut microbiome is driving us around with highly specific inputs. The theories for how gut-brain axis modulation works include altering the balance of nutrients that get absorbed and modulating the vagus nerve, primarily. For someone with autism it might be possible that altering some of these ba…

I’m not going to pretend to be an expert here, but I remember a study that found gut bacteria composition predicted whether or not an individual was chocolate-craving or not in individuals eating identical diets: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17929959

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#116
post #75
post #42

>> In early 2022 Krajmalnik-Brown and colleagues patented a specific bacterial formulation and spun-off a commercial company called Gut-Brain Axis Therapeutics. I was a little surprised to see this. So the university researchers use time and money from the university to make a discovery, extending on previous published research, and then patent it and start their own for-profit? Excuse my ignorance, but is that how i…

This is how it works. Universities are doing research, they aren't doing products. If a commercially viable product comes out of their research it is far outside the scope of universities. Also keep in mind that most sciences usually don't produce commercially viable research (think social sciences, archeology, geography etc.) And as others said: how the universities gets a cut from the spin offs differs from univers…

Yep. The alternative is usually that the product doesn't get manuactured. And the public funds loads of research which starts within private companies and stays there anyway...

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#117
post #11

>Editor's note: Readers often ask us for follow-ups on memorable stories. What has happened to this story over the years? This article was originally published in 2019 but it has been re-edited and updated with new information current as of April 7, 2025. Enjoy! Now that is something that should be done more often - especially in science journalism, but not only. We cruelly lack long-term vision - not only forward bu…

I agree about the updates. However, news sites like this one aren’t combing through research to find things to update. They’re responding to PR outreach from companies. Did you notice there isn’t actually a link to a new publication? It’s only quotes from the company. They’re repeating PR material, not updates on the research. There’s a subtext here that isn’t immediately obvious without reading more from the company…

They aren't the only company doing this exact therapy.

It isn't a good one.

When I looked at preclinical for one of their competitors, that was the exact same thing, the issue was study design. Specifically, you are shoving something up an autistic kid's butt once a day or twice a day. They only did this to the placebo arm for 3 days, and only to healthy kids, whereas the treatment arm did this for 8 weeks.

If I punched you in the chest as hard as I could once or twice a day, do you think you'd have a behavioral change? That's their endpoint. If I called it a "medical" punch, does that change anything?

Can an autistic kid learn how to answer a test to get the thing to stop being shoved up their butt? I think so. By all means though, I encourage people to make this risky investment if they think this treatment pathway is real. It sort of is! If you want a behavioral change, we have a good idea of a way to get that from defenseless kids. But not for a good reason.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#119
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is, that may be a bigger concern here, that the research is often publicly funded while the uses of that research and the profits that come with them are kept private. It’s complicated and I buy the notion that research improves the economy as a whole, but it is also true that when research gets patented and becomes a billion dollar product, those dollars don’t reduce any taxes directly.

The public funds the research so that it gets done in the first place. It's not a venture investment.

What do you mean? Research funding absolutely is an investment. Research that is productized is a venture, and the universities involved absolutely do invest in the venture, and sometimes see a handsome ROI.

In terms of why the public funds research, your statement might be true, but isn’t addressing the concern that many in the public have raised before: the results of the research should be public, given that the research was publicly funded. We have laws about open access to government functions, so why is research different?

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seed the gut with nutrients. having lots of fiber and a varied diet increases the number of species that an adult has which is between a couple hundred to a thousand or so. Our guts are generally dominated by a bunch of beneficial bacteria. which for many is not the case for a variety of social economic or behavioral reasons. Add in with explosions of bacterial populations due to alcohol or sugar and you can see…

I’ve noticed I really need to keep alcohol and sugar consumption in check. Sometimes it seems like one drink is enough to kick off a gut ecosystem collapse, and other times my gut is more resistant to the effects. Definitely trying to increase fiber consumption significantly.

How are you judging the impact of things on your gut/microbiome?
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