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Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

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Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#451

Post by skywal_l »

Shorel wrote: post #426

Linux is one of the best Win-API platforms. It is the absolute best for backwards compatibility: it runs 16 bit apps. Now it is getting faster for gaming. And the reverse relation is also true: In Linux, the best backwards compatible stable API is WinAPI. I can play 30 year old Windows games in Linux. They just work and run better than ever. For the same project ( https://www.descent2.de ), I can not even install the…

After a few fixes, it builds on a debian-13. You just need to install a few dependencies (glew, SDL, curl).

The real problem here is the tooling. New versions of automake and C++ compilers are stricter than they used to be.

Indeed, for long term conservation, you need to vendor your dependencies AND your tools to make sure that the project is sustainable without intervention. But with the magic of LLMs now, this is not a problem anymore. Claude was able to fix it in less than 10 minutes.

And having the source code beats playing the original game. You can recompile in high def and make all the modifications you want to make it feel like a modern game (or not!) and sill get you your dose of nostalgia.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#452

Post by asdfbank »

My linux gaming experience has left me with a wierd irony... I have been stealing windows for the last 25 years and never ever felt like i owed M$ a cent. Now after totally switching to free stuff i suddenly feel (not in a bad way at all) a kind of debt to open source developers for just making cool stuff and putting it out there for me to use and play with and i'm not doing a crime anymore!

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#453

Post by _joel »

Shorel wrote: post #426

Linux is one of the best Win-API platforms. It is the absolute best for backwards compatibility: it runs 16 bit apps. Now it is getting faster for gaming. And the reverse relation is also true: In Linux, the best backwards compatible stable API is WinAPI. I can play 30 year old Windows games in Linux. They just work and run better than ever. For the same project ( https://www.descent2.de ), I can not even install the…

Descent, Heretic, XCOM: TFTD.. All games that take me back to a special place :)

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#454

Post by somenameforme »

globalnode wrote: post #346
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly. We used a set of INT instructions in well-known low memory addresses that all jumped to the same place. We had an ASM file that you linked with, that had sixteen different address combinations for each. The common entry point would look back on the stack and calculate from the return address which entry point had been called, and run the appropriate kernel call. We called it the CS:IP hack. In the conte…

int 21h !

Need some params!

mov ah, 2

mov dl,7

Ahhh.. probably my first program. Don't forget the int 20 at the end! It was beeping great. Still never unlocked the mysteries of those TSR programs though.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#455

Post by chromadon »

coconut08 wrote: post #328
chromadon wrote: post #199

I use Bazzite for all my gaming (Returnal at the minute) and it works unbelievably well. I don’t tinker with any of the proton version. I just press play. I recently completed Stellar Blade with zero issues. I don’t even shutdown the machine, I just hit the power to sleep it. Instantly resumes where I left off. Incredible to see just how far it’s come.

im using bazzite with an amd cpu and amd gpu and sleep doesn't work properly? what motherboard/cpu/gpu do you have? did you have to do something special to make it work?

I’m using an AMD cpu and an Nvidia gpu and it worked out of the box.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#456

Post by kelseydh »

wtetzner wrote: post #363
dragontamer wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never was fair to play vs computers in reaction games or skill games. IE: Quakebots and Fighting games have perfect reaction times and perfect combos. They can simply block perfectly and counter attack perfectly and never drop a combo. You act like cheating is new to video games?? -------- We never wanted bot in these games. Still don't want them today, and it's a big reason that playing on public boxes (ex: at an…

> You act like cheating is new to video games?? No, I think the point is that with AI the existing anti-cheat measures can simply be avoided by letting the AI play through the same interface as a human. Therefore anti-cheat kernel modules will no longer be useful, and will no longer be a reason to stay on Windows.

Chess anti-cheat now relies on looking at your moves and spotting mistakes. Not even grandmasters play tactically perfect games so this works pretty well for finding cheaters. In theory FPS games could do the same to detect aimbotting.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#457

Post by swiftcoder »

HerbManic wrote: post #439
protocolture wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. I think that games have been a strategic priority for Windows for a very long time. Going all the way back to DOS/4GW on Windows 95. But the impression I get from Microsoft is that they kind of don't want the hassle of maintaining a desktop OS anymore, and they would be happier if everyone went elsewhere.

The last few years it has felt like that, Microsoft is more than happy to sell to everyone while also having Windows. I mean Windows is still a huge cash cow for them and is THE desktop OS but the actions they are taking with it sort of makes it feel like a second class citizen.

> and is THE desktop OS

Part of the problem seems to be that desktop OS use as a whole is cratering as more and more folks who grew up in the smartphone era enter adulthood. Outside of tech circles, I meet a lot of folks who have a phone + tablet but no actual computer...

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#458

Post by ChocolateGod »

emkoemko wrote: post #419
ben-schaaf wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these games already have an authoritative server. These cheaters aren't breaking the rules of the game by being invincible, super speedy, etc. they're aim-botting and wall hacking. Those cheats can't be prevented with authoritative networking.

why can't we prevent wall hacking by not sending packets of enemy players position if the user can't see them on their screen

You can do it to a degree (basic room detection), but it'll never be 100% accurate because of latency and compute cost, you have to give leeway.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#459

Post by somenameforme »

protocolture wrote: post #411
neverkn0wsb357 wrote: post #295

Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. If you look at Steam, and OSs like Bazzite it’s clear the consumer-side is finally shoring up. But that aside, from an economic incentive, game providers (for example Amazon Luna), don’t want to be paying the licenses for running Windows machines for Video Game Streaming on Demand. In fact, at my time there…

>Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. I think that games have been a strategic priority for Windows for a very long time. Going all the way back to DOS/4GW on Windows 95. But the impression I get from Microsoft is that they kind of don't want the hassle of maintaining a desktop OS anymore, and they would be happier if everyone went elsewhere.

I'm not sure. They put a ton of effort into things like DirectX, were outright anticompetitive against OpenGL, and there was an atypically high degree of competence and vision throughout. It probably wasn't about the games but about tying people to Windows. People didn't make games for Linux because there were no gamers on Linux. There were no gamers on Linux because people didn't make games for Linux.

On top of this, gaming used to be (and probably still is) the main reason to cycle through PCs. If you're just going to browse the web, use relatively low resource software, etc then a PC or even laptop from a decade+ ago is 100% fine. The reason consumers upgrade is going to be heavily weighted by games. And each of those upgrades often comes with new OEM software that was licensed and other economic benefits to Microsoft.

---

As for modern Microsoft, I agree with you from an outsider's perspective, but I'd bet internally it's a different game. Microsoft seems to be having major issues with labor competency, on both the implementation and management side, and it's making their entire ecosystem collapse. Anything that has major outward visibility (like desktop OS) is going to make the circus most immediately visible. I have little doubt they have the same stuff going on internally with their other offerings.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#460

Post by swiftcoder »

YPPH wrote: post #322
KennyBlanken wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online multiplayer games keep trying to allow linux users in and keep having to lock them out because there's an instant influx of cheaters. The Nintendo Switch (which runs Linux) was a favorite of cheaters after jailbreaks came out. When anyone can compile and run their own kernel with god knows what for modifications, that makes it substantially easier for cheaters and substantially harder for anti-cheat. I don't s…

>The Nintendo Switch (which runs Linux) was a favorite of cheaters after jailbreaks came out. If you're saying the Nintendo Switch system software is Linux-based, I don't think that's correct. It's a proprietary system based on a microkernel architecture.

It's proprietary, but they kit bashed a bunch of existing components (iirc, Android's surface flinger, the Nvidia embedded linux drivers, and the freebsd network stack)
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