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Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

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Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#421

Post by f33d5173 »

emkoemko wrote: post #418
KennyBlanken wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online multiplayer games keep trying to allow linux users in and keep having to lock them out because there's an instant influx of cheaters. The Nintendo Switch (which runs Linux) was a favorite of cheaters after jailbreaks came out. When anyone can compile and run their own kernel with god knows what for modifications, that makes it substantially easier for cheaters and substantially harder for anti-cheat. I don't s…

i am really doubting that Nintendo Switch uses Linux?... they would have to provide source code no?

Only to the kernel. And only if they patched it. Kernel modules don't count as patches. This is how myriad android vendors get out of providing source. But no, the switch doesn't use linux afaik.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#422

Post by isityettime »

hx8 wrote: post #127
caycep wrote: post #25

If you purpose build a Linux gaming PC, would you lean more towards AMD GPUs over Nvidia?

I think this gets overblown a bit. AMD is better, but Nvidia can work. There's plenty of valid reasons to put in the extra effort and go with Nvidia.

AMD began the process of open-sourcing their Linux graphics drivers more than 20 years ago. At that time, they had no working open-source drivers yet; they'd only just released some hardware documentation. I told myself then that if they came through and delivered open-source drivers, I was an AMD customer for life. I've more or less held to it. I don't remember the last time I considered NVIDIA an option.

NVIDIA has apparently open-sourced the kernel drivers for their most recent couple generations of graphics cards. That's great! But they have a hell of a lot of catching up to do. Their kernel drivers aren't in the mainline Linux kernel. Their userspace drivers are proprietary, whereas AMD's are open-source. AMD's kernel drivers are built into Linux and their userspace drivers are built into Mesa.

That history of greater compatibility matters in its own right: all of the developers of Linux desktop environments, window managers, and compositors have been running AMD or Intel GPUs almost exclusively for many years.

If "voting with your wallet" means anything to you, or you want things to "just work", AMD is the clear choice and it's not even close.

If you already have NVIDIA hardware, by all means, go ahead. It's doable. But AMD is a way more rational choice on Linux for most users.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#423

Post by Dylan16807 »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #222
anonymousab wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem is that having better FPS stops mattering if the frame pacing and timing is bad, making the game feel like a juddery mess. Or if there is significant input delay differences. That's why all the data matters for all of these dimensions; game performance is much more than FPS per watt over time. When people see "linux gaming is great now, look at the fps" it comes across as potentially disengenuous because…

To tack onto this a big annoyance for me right now is the lack of knowledge in the community about frame pacing and how to configure the computer. The user will say 'it lags' but does not mention if they have tearing enabled in wayland, what are their 1% lows, have they set an fps cap, what vsync settings have they chosen in-game. On top of that there is an ecosystem failure as not every game supports arbitrary caps…

> Linux is only a 'just click play' experience if you have no standards because I have never had this stuff be correct out of the box on a fresh install.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the standard you've outlined excludes Windows too.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#424

Post by lovich »

emkoemko wrote: post #419
ben-schaaf wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these games already have an authoritative server. These cheaters aren't breaking the rules of the game by being invincible, super speedy, etc. they're aim-botting and wall hacking. Those cheats can't be prevented with authoritative networking.

why can't we prevent wall hacking by not sending packets of enemy players position if the user can't see them on their screen

you run into some really difficult to solve issues when it comes to the gameplay loop, the graphics engine, and network latency trying to solve that unless you are playing some sort of turn based game where all data can be resolved before the next action

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#425

Post by lovich »

isityettime wrote: post #415
bigyabai wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is for power users. Windows 10 with Powertoys and WSL for stuff like yt-dlp is a fine stopgap, but you can get the same workflow on Linux with a leaner system. I never installed Windows 11 on any of my PCs, there's no place for it in my work or gaming regimen. If Linux is supposed to keep Windows honest, then some dev at Microsoft must have a Pinocchio nose.

The problem is that Windows power users arrive on Linux and think they know what they're doing, when in reality they don't know up from down. Very basic things like norms about user confirmation and warnings are frequent stumbling blocks.¹ Windows power users expect their habits and instincts to be right and treat the system as broken wherever they aren't. After all, they "know computers"! So when one of them hits a…

That imgur link is just sending me to the image template for the "I'll Fuckin' Do It Again" Goofy meme. If that was intentional than what youre referencing isnt as infamous as you thought as I have no idea what it means in terms of windows users on Linux.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#426

Post by Shorel »

Linux is one of the best Win-API platforms.

It is the absolute best for backwards compatibility: it runs 16 bit apps.

Now it is getting faster for gaming.

And the reverse relation is also true: In Linux, the best backwards compatible stable API is WinAPI.

I can play 30 year old Windows games in Linux. They just work and run better than ever.

For the same project (https://www.descent2.de), I can not even install the dependencies to compile it in a modern distro, as every library is deprecated and removed from the repositories. The precompiled native Linux binaries also can't work.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#427

Post by figmert »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #371
neverkn0wsb357 wrote: post #295

Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. If you look at Steam, and OSs like Bazzite it’s clear the consumer-side is finally shoring up. But that aside, from an economic incentive, game providers (for example Amazon Luna), don’t want to be paying the licenses for running Windows machines for Video Game Streaming on Demand. In fact, at my time there…

Nah. Linux is still too bloody awful for power users, never mind the median gamer. Most Linux usage is SteamOS which only barely counts. It’s a great hedge that keeps Windows almost honest. But we’re a long long long long long long long long ways from the median gaming PC being Linux.

What do you consider a power user? Because I'd consider an OS that refuses to let you do what you want, and constantly reverts your customisation, the opposite of power user friendly.

We're a long way not because Linux cannot do it. We're a long way because publishers refuse to take it serious.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#428

Post by neofrog »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #371
neverkn0wsb357 wrote: post #295

Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. If you look at Steam, and OSs like Bazzite it’s clear the consumer-side is finally shoring up. But that aside, from an economic incentive, game providers (for example Amazon Luna), don’t want to be paying the licenses for running Windows machines for Video Game Streaming on Demand. In fact, at my time there…

Nah. Linux is still too bloody awful for power users, never mind the median gamer. Most Linux usage is SteamOS which only barely counts. It’s a great hedge that keeps Windows almost honest. But we’re a long long long long long long long long ways from the median gaming PC being Linux.

If you call yourself a power user and cannot use Linux properly, you are not a power user.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#429

Post by Dylan16807 »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #324
skupig wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's necessarily true, I think companies are lazy and highly invasive anticheat is an easy win they can license from a 3rd party. Algorithmic security, server-side heuristics, and human review can get you far. I have very, very rarely seen a blatant cheater in Overwatch (maybe 3 times in 10 years?), for example, and yet it's been playable via WINE for almost its entire lifetime.

Overwatch is more dependent upon teamwork, ability usage, positioning, etc. Cheating is endemic in BR and tactical shooter type games. I remember one f2p game was deleting 50,000 cheater accounts every month.

A key phrase being free to play.

If the developer's winning $20 per cheater detection, and puts in extra resources when there's more cheaters, the equilibrium ends up a lot better.

And even for free games, I could imagine different ways to tie a monetary stake in in exchange for skipping invasive anticheats.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#430

Post by isityettime »

lovich wrote: post #425
isityettime wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Windows power users arrive on Linux and think they know what they're doing, when in reality they don't know up from down. Very basic things like norms about user confirmation and warnings are frequent stumbling blocks.¹ Windows power users expect their habits and instincts to be right and treat the system as broken wherever they aren't. After all, they "know computers"! So when one of them hits a…

That imgur link is just sending me to the image template for the "I'll Fuckin' Do It Again" Goofy meme. If that was intentional than what youre referencing isnt as infamous as you thought as I have no idea what it means in terms of windows users on Linux.

Lmfao, thanks. Damn indistinguishable imgur URLs on my clipboard. Fixed.
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