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Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

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Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#251

Post by chris_wot »

JanJansen wrote: post #184
chris_wot wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try not to be too confrontational here, but in this case I'm probably going to have to. I would dearly love for Microsoft to release a killer OS, but so far as of yet I can't see any real compelling feature that I would be particularly interested in. Let's be honest here... if I have to do development work, then I'm not going to use Windows 8. I'll be using Windows 7.

Why not use windows 8? It has lots of small improvements to windows 7 (better task manager, better multi monitor support, new keyboard shortcuts, integrated cloud storage...etc) that's enough for me. Plus the new Windows runtime APIs looks very nice, and most are usable in desktop or metro apps.

From an end user POV: task manager is fine in windows 7, for any deep system performance troubleshooting I use perfmon; multi monitor support is work brilliantly for me in Windows 7; I use Dropbox, works very well for me and is quite integrated enough!

As for Windows runtime APIs, it depends on whether I want to make he bet that Windows 8 is going to be successful enough to learn them. Jury is still our on that. Besides, I'm more of a Spring man...

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#252

Post by chris_wot »

omni wrote: post #222
w1ntermute wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, still a misconception. You're not running Android, you're running a version of Android adulterated by Samsung. The latest release of stock Android has unified search built in.

Good luck explaining this to the (vast majority) of Android users that have an "adulterated" version.

For those who care, and that's most power users, they'll replace the brain dead Samsung version with their own customised versions of Android.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#253

Post by chris_wot »

elarkin wrote: post #213
AlexandrB wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dock generally displays all running apps, you can just click on one. I agree about the screenshot one - but this is often a power-user use case. There are a bunch of ways to eject a drive: 1. little eject button in Finder, 2. Right click on drive on desktop -> Eject, 3. Drag drive from desktop to Recycle Bin (this one is weird, but intuitive for long-time Mac users I guess). I admit I may be misinterpreting what…

On my mac my keyboard has an eject button right next to f12(volume up). If I press that then the primary disk drive ejects its disk. If I had two disk drives, I'm not sure which it would eject. I suspect that this is what WayneDB was referring to.

To chime in on the screenshot issue - the only real way around a shortcut is to have some sort of Window... And you'd have to have some sort of setting that hides the window. I think Gnome has something like that.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#254

Post by moheeb »

chris_wot wrote: post #155
f4stjack wrote: post #132

Wow... I feel like I am in a minority who enjoyed windows 8. As for the article I disagree with it on many points. I am using this beast for several months (adding the beta releases to the queue) and although I was very sceptic and using the same words with Mr. Nielsen as in the UI is schizophrenic and tries to be two things in one shell BUT you know what? If you are not interested, you don't even see Metro (or whate…

I expect windows 9 will streamline it even more. I do not want to have to wait for Windows 9 for Microsoft to get their act together.

Then buy Windows 8....or Windows 7.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#255

Post by lurkinggrue »

estel wrote: post #173
jakeonthemove wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you do HAVE to use it! Start computer - Metro, Open app - Metro, Search for something - Metro, Shutdown/Restart - Metro, Windows Updates - Metro, Control Panel - Metro, switch apps - Metro, and more. It's a real PITA when you get the huge goddamn Start Menu when you want to do something simple... And even if you do reduce that to a minimum (which is possible), it's still stupid - here you are working with 4 windo…

Is it a problem that the start menu is huge? The traditional start menu has always felt like a huge usability nightmare to me and I'm nothing but glad that it's been replaced.

Yes. I could accept usability updates but taking you away from all the other windows is just damn annoying.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#256

Post by marshray »

jpatte wrote: post #249
marshray wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically true for Windows RT, for which Microsoft has stated there will be no new Desktop apps approved for it. AFAICT, WinRT is the new officially-recommended API and support for Win32 desktop apps is legacy.

It's true for Windows RT indeed, but the article was explicitly referring to Windows 8. And AFAICT myself WinRT has always been presented as a new API designed for new kind of Windows applications (i.e. Windows Store apps). It doesn't make the other APIs obsolete in any way for the other kinds of application, just like the CLR didn't force anyone to write managed code. See this chart from Build 2011 for example : htt…

Looking at that chart one might be forgiven for thinking that Win32 desktop apps couldn't call WinRT APIs and vice-versa.

I don't recall where, but I've seen a good blog post explaining the errors and variations on that diagram. DrPizza maybe?

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#257

Post by omnisci »

chintan wrote: post #186

Honest question: For a multi-billion product like Windows, doesn't Microsoft conduct usability testing? Neilsen had 12 participants in his study and discovered quite major usability issues. I wonder if their internal testing came up with similar issues and now they are having an Emperor's clothes moment.

I've actually wondered this as well. I actually like the DESKTOP portion of Windows 8 and think it is a really nice improvement over windows 7. In fact, if Win8 shipped without metro, I'd buy it right now...happily.

But it doesn't. It comes with Metro, and although I "figured it out", I shouldn't have to. Specifically as I'm comfortable with every OS available, using iOS, android, windows (since 2.0) and OSX. Each one of them requires a bit of learning and tweaking, but I remember opening win8 RC and wondering "how do I shut this off?" Initially I got pissed off because I felt like a child, I had no idea how to find the control panel etc (without using "advanced methods, winkey-r, "control" enter). While every OS has it's weakness, if you can't do basic shit then there is a serious problem.

So, did they conduct usability testing? I also wonder. I'm gonna vote "no" on this one.

With that said, I'm still gonna get it, purely out of curiosity.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#258

Post by robomartin »

moheeb wrote: post #242
robomartin wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read my comment you'll find out that we did install it on one machine and tried to run it. I am a working professional. I really don't have time to waste trying to get around someone deciding to completely change the interface on one of the tools I use to make a living. Imagine if tomorrow morning you had a choice to drive two cars: The first, is a newer version of the car you already own. Everything is cleane…

I really don't have time to waste trying to get around someone deciding to completely change the interface on one of the tools I use to make a living. No offense but that is a really lame excuse. You wouldn't have time to learn to use a nail gun instead of a framing hammer if you were a carpenter? You risk being out of work soon with an attitude like that.

No offense taken. I think your comparison is exactly on point: nail gun vs. framing hammer.

Since I love woodworking and enjoy doing remodeling projects around the house I know exactly what you are talking about. My son and I just finished turning a loft into a bedroom and had the pleasure of dusting off our nail gun, which made quick work of framing-up a new wall.

Pay attention to what you said though. Nail gun vs. framing hammer. The transition delivers a huge improvement in productivity and probably quality as well. Every nail goes in faster, easier and maybe even more accurately.

So, yes, if I had a crew of framers instead of programmers I would go out and buy a bunch of framing hammers. I would then stop all work and make sure everyone learned how to use them. Then we'd be able to fabricate structures much faster and with better quality.

That is not the case with a transition from Windows-anything to Windows 8. In fact, it seems that the experience might just be exactly opposite. Almost every report I read (and my own experience) seems to show that the first-touch experience is one of baffled confusion.

What would happen if you had an office with 100 workers and surprised them with a transition from, say, Windows 7 to Windows 8 on Monday? Right, your office would grind to an absolute halt. It might take hours for different people to figure out how to do what they were doing just fine the prior Friday. Compare that to the transition from Win XP to Vista or Vista to W7. No real issues whatsoever. People would show-up on Monday and, for the most part, go straight to work. That is the difference.

W8 isn't the equivalent of a transition from hammer to nail gun.

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#259

Post by tripzilch »

nchlswu wrote: post #219
rlu wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is pinch to zoom obvious? Is left clicking obvious? Is ctrl alt delete obvious? Is spacebar to pause/resume video/music obvious? I'm no UEX expert but all of the above seem to be things that many people know how to do, yet would not seem immediately obvious at first. I am quite confident that "swiping in from the right to reveal charms/commands/options" will join the ranks of the above. It'll just take a few months o…

I see what you're getting at, but some of your examples don't help your case. Whenever someone refers to something being "obvious" it can always boil down to a philosophical question of what obvious actually means. Nothing is truly obvious, and we've obviously conditioned from our surroundings. While we've obviously adopted conventions to interact with computers, they've offered affordances (or forced us) that hint a…

> physically trying many different keyboard combinations just isn't something people do.

you are so right. I did this exactly once, when I discovered that + did special things in Windows, so at some point I decided to just try them all. I learned the +, doing the silly 3D task switcher, that way (I already knew the useful ones like +, and ).

There's considerable risk in this approach, you don't know what the commands are going to do. I just did it because I was 1) very curious and 2) didn't have important things open and 3) kind of assumed they would not put a "really mess up your computer" command behind a single shortcut key.

Now that I think of it, I learned the + commands from a blog somewhere, so I didn't even discover that tremendously useful shortcut :)

Re: Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users

#260

Post by SonicSoul »

rogerbinns wrote: post #78
potatolicious wrote: post #12

Have been using a Surface as well as a Win8 desktop for a couple of weeks now, and I have to say this is pretty accurate. When WinPhone first came out with the Metro UI I was a fan - there's a visual simplicity to it that's very appealing. After you use it for a while though the weaknesses become pretty glaring and hard to accept. It is often very hard to tell what UI elements are interactive and what are purely info…

BTW Android tried the whole unified search thing. Back in the days of hardware buttons there was even one of the four dedicated to just search. A running app could detect the button press and bring up a standardized search interface. If the search started outside an app (eg home screen) then you get the same standard search interface. Each app could register as a search provider - responding with content relevant to…

this (and the back button) is still one of my favorite features about Android. i love that from home it will search google, while from play it will search apps, in gmail it will search mail and so on..

I am using Galaxy sII which still has a dedicated search button. just checked sIII and it is indeed gone! to me this is a major feature loss

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