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Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

simonwillison.net

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Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#731

Post by philipwhiuk »

eddieroger wrote: post #416
jwpapi wrote: post #373

> I know full well that if you ask Claude Code to build a JSON API endpoint that runs a SQL query and outputs the results as JSON, it’s just going to do it right. It’s not going to mess that up. You have it add automated tests, you have it add documentation, you know it’s going to be good. I feel like this is just not true. An JSON API endpoint also needs several decisions made. - How should the endpoint be named - W…

> If I know the answer to all these questions, wiring it together takes me LESS time than passing it to Claude Code. That's just not true, and if it is in your case, then you're not great at writing prompts yet. > Take the todo_items table in Postgres and build a Micronaut API based around it. The base URL should be /v1/todo_items. You can connect to Postgres with pguser:pgpass@1.2.3.4 That's about all it takes these…

> you’re not great at writing prompts yet

You know what we call adequately specifying the system such that the computer can run it as a viable system.

Coding. We call it coding.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#732

Post by gchamonlive »

latexr wrote: post #707
u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

> Also, when did we stop liking to learn? I suspect it happened when we achieved a level of such constant stimulation (there is a pocket computer always on us with infinite effortless distraction) that we’re never bored and never engage the default mode network. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orQKfIXMiA8 When you’re bored, your mind goes to places it wouldn’t otherw…

> it happened when we achieved a level of such constant stimulation (...) that we’re never bored and never engage the default mode network.

I don't know... I don't disagree, but I think this has been repeated so much that I believe everyone, at least everyone that is actively participating in HN discussions is aware of this.

So if we are aware of this and we consciously choose to keep engaging in dopaminergic activities, without having some time to be bored, I think it starts to become a choice. We can blame tech for starting this trend of stealing our attention, but once we become aware of this, we can only blame ourselves for perpetuating it.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#733

Post by philipwhiuk »

hintymad wrote: post #302
zarzavat wrote: post #24

Perhaps I've missed a few weeks worth of progress, but I don't think that AIs have become more trustworthy, the errors are just more subtle. If the code doesn't compile, that's easy to spot. If the code compiles but doesn't work, that's still somewhat easy to spot. If the code compiles and works, but it does the wrong thing in some edge case, or has a security vulnerability, or introduces tech debt or dubious archite…

> I don't think that AIs have become more trustworthy, the errors are just more subtle. Honest question: what about the counter-argument that humans make subtle mistakes all the time, so why do we treat AI any differently? A difference to me is that when we manually write code, we reason about the code carefully with a purpose. Yes we do make mistakes, but the mistakes are grounded in a certain range. In contrast, AI…

> Honest question: what about the counter-argument that humans make subtle mistakes all the time, so why do we treat AI any differently?

We're investing in the human getting better rather than paying $100 to Anthropic and hoping that's enough that they don't make the product worse.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#734

Post by dzjkb »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #723
hatefulheart wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this. Either you're lying, or you just haven't caught on how to use a computer. Everything I do to interact with my computer is still the same. See how boring you are?

Ok sorry about that. I seriously don't believe him. The Agent is so fast there's literally no way you can be faster. Telling the agent your high level plan that you are extremely familiar with and then having the agent execute on 2000 lines of code is FASTER then having you execute on that 2000 lines of code. There is no reality where that can be physically beaten by even someone who's typing really quickly with zero…

AI can write 2000 lines faster than you, but you can write the 2000 lines correctly first shot faster than having AI do 10 iterations on these 2000 lines with your guidance to finally get it right

I know that a better plan could mean fewer iterations, but again that extends the time you need to spend on that plan => the total time of the AI solution

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#735

Post by stephenr »

cpursley wrote: post #720
stephenr wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've posited for a while now that the people who find spicy autocomplete to be exciting are the people who can't really do what it does. I played with Image Playground last year some time. It was really fun. You know why? I can't draw, and I can't paint, to save my life. It's letting me do something I can't do well/at all on my own. Using an LLM to do something I can do, with the caveat that it's pretty mediocre at t…

While you are dying on a hill, with the help of LLMs, I'm shipping quality software and features to my customers at a pace I haven't been able to before. And no, not some nextjs slop. If you are letting your LLM look at StackOverflow, you are doing it wrong - it needs to be grounding in your stacks official docs and any other style/rules you prefer wired with other tooling like linting/formatting, duplication checkin…

> If you are letting your LLM look at StackOverflow, you are doing it wrong

So you've evaluated all the sources that the model was trained on initially have you? How long did that take you?

> I'm shipping quality software and features to my customers at a pace I haven't been able to before.

I'm sorry are you agreeing with me or not? It sounds like you're agreeing with me.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#736

Post by stephenr »

MrScruff wrote: post #726
stephenr wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've posited for a while now that the people who find spicy autocomplete to be exciting are the people who can't really do what it does. I played with Image Playground last year some time. It was really fun. You know why? I can't draw, and I can't paint, to save my life. It's letting me do something I can't do well/at all on my own. Using an LLM to do something I can do, with the caveat that it's pretty mediocre at t…

Is your argument that there is no imaginable situation where someone who was competent at software development could find use for a semi-automated tool for writing software? That would imply that either the person in question has infinite time, or has access to all software that could ever be of utility to them, which seems unlikely.

There's a reason I call it spicy autocomplete.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#737

Post by Zetaphor »

sdevonoes wrote: post #632
Finbel wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, when did we stop liking to learn? Why is it a bad thing to know all the ins and outs of a programming language? I do not know the inns and out of the assembly layer my high level code end up as. It's not because I don't like to learn, it's because I genuinely don't need to. At a certain level of AI performance, how will this be any different?

One difference is: to use a top notch compiler/assembler you don’t need to pay. They are open source and have a lot of support. To use the latest and greatest models (bc no one around likes to use non sota ones) you need to pay a premium price. Multibillion dollars companies are now the gateway for every line of code you need to write. That’s dystopian. It sucks

Local models are increasingly becoming capable of taking on serious coding tasks that I would have previously sent to a frontier lab

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#738

Post by maxsilver »

u8 wrote: post #440

The disconnect for AI is that it is a jagged frontier and it only really shines when one of its jagged frontiers extends counter to one of your valleys. If you've been writing Perl for 30 years, you might not want to learn JavaScript just to make a little fun idea in your head to show your wife. Vibe code that shit man. Who cares? Your wife does not care about LOC or those internal design decisions you made. If you'r…

> Also, when did we stop liking to learn?

When the economy got so bad for so many people, that every waking moment has to be either chasing fresh cash (or spent in recovery from cash-chasing, worrying about new cash), to the point they have to largely ignore their own long term goals or basic morals or principles.

You can blame all the new gadgets (phones/social media/tiktok/‘dopamine-things’) — but it’s a very much blaming the symptom, not the problem.

(It’s the meme. “Guys, this isn’t funny. Humans only do this when they’re very distressed”)

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#739

Post by bobkb »

While those who are hands on is realising the limits and issues with vibe/context engineering/agentic engeering/buzz-word-of-the-week the businesses and pushing hard on the buzz words. It’s high time we start looking at ways to live with the new reality and figure out ways to ensure software reliability.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#740

Post by MrScruff »

stephenr wrote: post #736
MrScruff wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your argument that there is no imaginable situation where someone who was competent at software development could find use for a semi-automated tool for writing software? That would imply that either the person in question has infinite time, or has access to all software that could ever be of utility to them, which seems unlikely.

There's a reason I call it spicy autocomplete.

Which is what?
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