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Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

simonwillison.net

411–420 of 958 posts

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still a bad metric. I have worked with code where 1000s of lines are very straightforward and linear. I’ve worked on code where 100 lines is crucial and very domain specific. It can be exceptionally clean and well-commented and it still takes days to unpack. The skills and effort required to review and understand those situations are quite different. One is like distance driving a boring highway in the Midwest:…

The number of bugs tends to be linear to lines of code written meaning fewer lines of code for the same functionality will have fewer bugs. So I’m pretty skeptical that reviewing 2000 lines of code won’t take any more time than reviewing 200 lines of code. Furthermore how do you know the AI generated lines are the open highway lines of code and not the mountain road ones? There might be hallucinations that pattern ma…

> The number of bugs tends to be linear to lines of code written meaning fewer lines of code for the same functionality will have fewer bugs.

It depends on the code. If you’re comparing code of the same complexity then, sure, 2000 lines will take longer than 200.

I was comparing straight linear code to far more complex code. The bug/line rate will be different and the time to review per line will be different.

> Furthermore how do you know the AI generated lines are the open highway lines of code and not the mountain road ones?

Again, it depends on the code. Which was my point.

Linear code lacks branches, loops, indirection, and recursion. That kind of code is easy to reason about and easy to review. The assumptions are inherently local. You still have to be alert and aware to avoid driving into the cornfields.

It’s a different beast than something like a doubly-nested state machine with callbacks, though. There you have to be alert and aware, and it’s inherently much harder to review per line of code.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#412

Have you noticed that the coding agents get really close to the solution on the first one shot and then require tons of work to get that last 10% or 5%? If we shift the paradigm of how we approach a coding problem, the coding agents can close that gap. Ten years ago every 10 or 15 minutes I would stop coding and start refactoring, testing, and analyzing making sure everything is perfect before proceeding because a bu…

Yes! Anthropic team calls this “regenerate, don’t fix.”

The person who builds an agentic IDE or GitHub alternative that natively does the process you describe will be a multibillionare.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#413
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I know the answer to all these questions, wiring it together takes me LESS time than passing it to Claude Code How so?

Like writing code to me is not slower than writing text? When I write code every character I type in my computer has less ambiguity than when I write it in human language? I also have the help of LSPs, Linters and Auto-completes.

I have a similar sentiment. Subject that makes the claim that AI writing code is fast is going to matter a lot because some programmers heavily use "LSPs, Linters and Auto-completes", key bindings, snippets, CLI commands, etc to speed up writing code

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#414
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will not work as cleanly as you described once a lot of code has been committed to the code base. You cannot just blow away an entire working code base and start over just because an LLM is struggling to make a feature work with existing architecture.

This happened on every single greeenfield project that I've started with AI, no matter how rigorous process I've had defined. And it's not just easier because it's cheap, it's easier because you're not emotionally attached to that code. Just let it produce slop, log what worked, what didn't, nuke the project and start over. It just gets incredibly boring.

People will get attached to code that works just right and they don’t want to mess with it too much.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#416
post #373

> I know full well that if you ask Claude Code to build a JSON API endpoint that runs a SQL query and outputs the results as JSON, it’s just going to do it right. It’s not going to mess that up. You have it add automated tests, you have it add documentation, you know it’s going to be good. I feel like this is just not true. An JSON API endpoint also needs several decisions made. - How should the endpoint be named - W…

> If I know the answer to all these questions, wiring it together takes me LESS time than passing it to Claude Code.

That's just not true, and if it is in your case, then you're not great at writing prompts yet.

> Take the todo_items table in Postgres and build a Micronaut API based around it. The base URL should be /v1/todo_items. You can connect to Postgres with pguser:pgpass@1.2.3.4

That's about all it takes these days. Less lines of code than your average controller.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#417
I agree to some extent. I think that small aps, dashboards, service wrappers etc. you can vibe code.

But building software still requires domain knowledge, understanding data structures, architecture, which services to use. We probably have 2-5 years before thats fully automated.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#418
post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also just talk it out loud to Claude while you’re on a walk getting some sunshine. Done.

Yeah I can and I’ve done it and for fun project it’s fun and cool. But its like using templates to build your website. You’ll be annoyed and at one point your project goes in the endless graveyary of abandoned projects

I think most people are finding the opposite. Claude Code is not only reducing how many projects get abandoned, it's also resurrecting projects from the graveyard.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#419
post #373

> I know full well that if you ask Claude Code to build a JSON API endpoint that runs a SQL query and outputs the results as JSON, it’s just going to do it right. It’s not going to mess that up. You have it add automated tests, you have it add documentation, you know it’s going to be good. I feel like this is just not true. An JSON API endpoint also needs several decisions made. - How should the endpoint be named - W…

> If I know the answer to all these questions, wiring it together takes me LESS time than passing it to Claude Code. That's just not true, and if it is in your case, then you're not great at writing prompts yet. > Take the todo_items table in Postgres and build a Micronaut API based around it. The base URL should be /v1/todo_items. You can connect to Postgres with pguser:pgpass@1.2.3.4 That's about all it takes these…

I've drank the AI koolaid so I'm not a hater, but to say "you're just not prompting right" is such a cop-out. Prompting right takes a metric fuck ton of effort. I'm actually kinda agreeing with you, if you make it to where you're dev environment is sufficiently harnessed, then you can give it one-liner magic prompts. But getting there, learning to get there, paying that cost, hot mother of god it's a lot of effort.

Communicating, in words, is extremely hard. I don't think this should be as controversial as it's seems in the prompt era.

VS: someone has mastered one of the myriad openAPI generators, and it's shipped.

Re: Vibe coding and agentic engineering are getting closer than I'd like

#420
post #151

the discourse around "code quality" has always attracted the least nuanced minds, ones who see the world and the phenomenon of life as nothing but territory to be divided up by the latest buzzwords. the worst ones insist that we narrow the discussion even further, to focus on the conflicts between these buzzwords. whenever i have to sit through such discussions, i try to meditate on the irony of mother nature weaving…

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