Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 230 posts

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#171

Post by Leonard_of_Q »

selimthegrim wrote: post #161
Leonard_of_Q wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put dikes around it, make channels to collect the seepage, pump water out of channels over the dikes into the sea. Problem solved in the same way the Netherlands has been solving this problem for many centuries. The pumps can run on solar power with some diesel backups for when the sun doesn't co-operate. As long as the system is kept in good shape and the channels are kept open Miami can lie several meters under sea…

The problem is saltwater intrusion into the drinking water table - a problem New Orleans only has one when it comes up the Mississippi river - Miami is a whole different level

That can be solved using desalination of seawater, an energy-intensive process which is tailor-made for the abundance of solar power in the area. If for some reason desalination is not deemed sufficient it may be possible to slow the seepage by creating deep barriers between coast and land [1]. If this results in groundwater emergence so much the better, just pump it out and send it to the water treatment plant. Excess water can be pumped elsewhere, either over the dikes or into the ground outside the dikes or wherever else it may be needed or beneficial. Since pumps are needed anyway the criticism in the article - reliance on pumps is costly and can lead to a point of failure in flood mitigation plans - is negated. Also, pumps have been used as part of flood mitigation plans for centuries in places like the Netherlands so there is a lot of data to be found for those who need it.

[1] https://coastalscience.noaa.gov/news/hardening-shorelines-ma...

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#172

Post by CWwdcdk7h »

snthpy wrote: post #147

A bit OT but what about the Netherlands?

No hurricanes there, so I guess they can just slowly rebuild walls to keep up with sea level and increase number of pumps already used to get rid of excess rainwater. Not great but manageable as long they secure enough money.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#173

Post by wat10000 »

alex43578 wrote: post #154
wat10000 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re genuinely poor then moving is cheap when viewed by someone who isn’t poor. Moving as a renter isn’t free. You’ll need to come up with a security deposit and coming up with two months of rent at once is not easy. Your slumlord landlord is going to keep your old one regardless of merit or law, so don’t think you can use that money. Convincing a new landlord that you’re a good risk is also not going to be easy…

If the article is to be believed, nobody is getting their deposits back in the coming decades when everything is under water. But again, if you genuinely can't move with a decade or more of notice because of a security deposit, there's something deeply wrong with how you are managing money and making decisions.

Oh yeah, I forgot that it’s their own fault that poor people are poor.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#174

Post by rayiner »

danaris wrote: post #149
rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's an emotional obsession with small percentages of the population that makes it impossible to discuss realistic solutions to problems that affect everyone. New Orleans is going to be underwater. That problem won't just affect poor people, it will affect everyone. So the first order of business is to encourage anyone who can do so to leave New Orleans to go somewhere that isn't underwater. That's the policy tha…

> it's an emotional obsession with small percentages of the population Ah, right: it's a small percentage of the population, so we should just let them die, "and decrease the surplus population", right? This kind of callousness is one of the biggest problem with the tech industry today. We learned to think in numbers, and some of us never learned to think about the people behind those numbers. Yes, there are some kin…

> The people who can move now, without financial hardship, get to make their own choices about when and whether to get out. The people we, as a society, should be thinking about are the people who cannot get out—either without financial ruination, or at all—because they are the ones we as a society must help.

This is exactly the problematic thinking I’m talking about. Your obsession with using society to help those whose problems are the most intractable leads you to conclude to majority should be left “to make their own choices.”

But the most effective use of social action is helping the majority. They can benefit from social organization and their problems are tractable. Here, leaving the majority to its own devices is going to cause the most damage in the long run. Society should push them to make good choices and relocate in an orderly manner while there’s time.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#175

Post by fanatic2pope »

phainopepla2 wrote: post #98
acdha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should have a one-time buyout for flood zones: pay someone enough to buy a median home somewhere similar and turn the land into a nature preserve (let mangroves return to protect Florida coast, etc.). Put a cap on it so we’re not buying new mansions for a few rich people with beach houses but otherwise keep it simple so people aren’t impoverished into becoming a drain on society. I have no expectation that we’ll b…

I wonder if there are any good ballpark estimates out there for what this would cost

A couple of ballrooms. Maybe half an Iran war or a Venezuelan coup or two?

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#176

Post by misiti3780 »

estearum wrote: post #169
misiti3780 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i work in insure tech, in the E&S space, which is where all of the flood and wind polices gets placed. Actuaries have nothing to do with it --- the cost of hurricane insurance comes from Moody's RMS and Verisk AIR, the only two CAT models the carriers and re-insurance companies use. Actuaries price the non-cat risk.

This is mostly a pedantic point that it's not actuaries doing the pricing, but a different set of risk analysts using a different suite of tools, right?

It's two monte carlo models that get refreshed every few years.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#177

Post by alex43578 »

wat10000 wrote: post #173
alex43578 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the article is to be believed, nobody is getting their deposits back in the coming decades when everything is under water. But again, if you genuinely can't move with a decade or more of notice because of a security deposit, there's something deeply wrong with how you are managing money and making decisions.

Oh yeah, I forgot that it’s their own fault that poor people are poor.

If, with 10 years notice, you can’t pull together a deposit, first/last month’s rent, and the $50 for a U-haul to move out of a city that will literally end up underwater, yes - it is your fault.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#178

Post by misiti3780 »

alexilliamson wrote: post #115
misiti3780 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miami is not Cleveland, and SF sucks.

Perhaps you misundestand the Tennessee Williams quote. He's not saying that Miami is literally in Ohio, just that is has no character.

it has more character that SF

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#179

Post by criddell »

snowpid wrote: post #164
TitaRusell wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that New Orleans is simply not important enough. Even the biggest ultra conservative GOP voting redneck will have to admit that America can't survive without NYC which is why it will get it's seawall.

This is very fascinating from a cultural viewpoint. Some cities in Europe are important just for the history and not economy like Venice, or lesser extent Rome. When the Russian attack started, people moaned about the old buildings and the culture in Kyiv. (Ofcourse the attack itself was inmoral). What I get is New Orleans has an unique culture and history. Most people in the US dont think it is worth to preserve?

Most people in the US think everybody should have access to basic healthcare but we haven't been able to make that happen.

Something like saving New Orleans probably doesn't stand a chance.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#180

Post by vintermann »

fsckboy wrote: post #24
madrox wrote: post #10

My roots are in Louisiana, and this makes me incredibly sad. It is such a unique place that has no like, and drives all tourism in the state. Where will tourists celebrate Mardi Gras after it's gone? Baton Rouge? Sadder, still, to know that nothing will be done. No one will be relocated. Just one day a weather event like a hurricane will happen to destroy the area and it will be labeled derelict with no funds to rebu…

[flagged]

If someone sells their house in an area soon to be underwater, will you buy it? If not you, who? Aquaman? (Apologies to HBomberMan).

The reason people don't move is that for the time being, they're much, much better off than if they move. Especially if they start moving in large numbers.

Post reply on HN