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'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#151

Post by lovich »

ryan_lane wrote: post #145
lovich wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Louisiana is. If New Orleans is extremely blue, but can contribute nothing but political power to authoritarian assholes, then they need to leave or figure out someway to fight. Sucks to suck, but the liberal Louisianians arent helping atm.

How can you fight when your power has been taken away from you? The reason I'm saying you're part of the problem is because you're blaming victims for the situation they're in without realizing that you're up next, and others like you are going to scream "why aren't you doing MORE TO HELP?" while you're screaming "Why isn't anyone helping ME?". Southern states have been stripping people's rights away for decades.

> How can you fight when your power has been taken away from you?

In ways I can not articulate on US social media sites without being permabanned.

If you are giving power to the authoritarians and doing nothing to stop it, then you are effectively the gasoline in my enemies tanks. I wish it wasn't so, but that is how reality is.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#152

Post by Leonard_of_Q »

kibwen wrote: post #130
deadbabe wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers will find a solution, they always do if there is sufficient motivation.

This is a statement of religious faith, not a statement of fact. Engineering is not magic, it is where physical reality crashes into economic reality.

No, it is a realistic approach to a problem which has been facing many places elsewhere in the world where it has been solved using engineering. It is far more apt to call climate doom predictions statements of religious faith given the history of engineering solutions to climate-related problems and the close resemblance of climate doom preachers to those deriving their prophecies from scripture.

Here's a few books on the subject which might be of interest for those who want to widen their view on the ever-changing climate. All of them have in common that they do not deny the climate is changing nor that human activities influence how it changes. Where they differ from the doom narrative is that they approach climate change in the way humans have dealt with other environmental problems to lessen or negate their impact instead of by preaching some grand narrative on how society should be run to avoid catastrophe.

Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All by Michael Shellenberger

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Never-Environmental-Alarmi...

False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet by Bjorn Lomborg

https://www.amazon.com/False-Alarm-Climate-Change-Trillions/...

Unsettled (Updated and Expanded Edition): What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesn't, and Why It Matters by Steven E. Koonin

https://www.amazon.com/Unsettled-Updated-Expanded-Climate-Sc...

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#153

Post by alex43578 »

lioeters wrote: post #144
hackable_sand wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wildly out of touch

"Catch a greyhound out of town" is the "Let them eat cake" for the poor and homeless (sorry "unhoused") of New Orleans. Empathy is for the weak, said the oppressor.

Billions have been spent rebuilding New Orleans once. Per the article, there's no realistic way to save New Orleans going forward. It's sad, it's unfortunate, it's reality.

The poor and homeless of Louisiana are already receiving massive benefits: 4th in the country for the share of households on welfare, 18% of the population on food stamps, $14B+ in FY23 of federal dollars went to welfare/TANF/Medicaid/etc.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#154

Post by alex43578 »

wat10000 wrote: post #110
alex43578 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you’re genuinely poor then moving is cheap when viewed by someone who isn’t poor. Moving as a renter isn’t free. You’ll need to come up with a security deposit and coming up with two months of rent at once is not easy. Your slumlord landlord is going to keep your old one regardless of merit or law, so don’t think you can use that money. Convincing a new landlord that you’re a good risk is also not going to be easy…

If the article is to be believed, nobody is getting their deposits back in the coming decades when everything is under water. But again, if you genuinely can't move with a decade or more of notice because of a security deposit, there's something deeply wrong with how you are managing money and making decisions.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#155

Post by actionfromafar »

notabotiswear wrote: post #134
estearum wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way too many Americans either don't know or disbelieve that a substantial chunk of the body politic, and now our elected and military leaders, actually literally believe this type of stuff. IMO any eschatological beliefs whatsoever should be 100% universally disqualifying for any political or military position, no matter what book title or special ancient zombie character they're filed under.

“Leaders” who believe this kind of stuff don’t end up running developed states. It’s the leaders who know how to make use of morons who believe this kinda stuff who do.

Hush now, you'll hasten the Antichrist.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#156

Post by kajman »

deadbabe wrote: post #116
ortusdux wrote: post #7

Miami too. The city is build on porous limestone. No amount of levees, seawalls, or dams will save it.

Engineers will find a solution, they always do if there is sufficient motivation.

Underwriters already have a solution, but there's a national flood insurance program ensuring taxpayers hold the bag instead.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#157

Post by GJim »

foobarian wrote: post #46
californical wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally I agree, and we’ve known this for a long time but people stay in denial. It’s the same thing in Miami. Unfortunately though, the solution isn’t that easy. For one, if you own property there, you’re basically either caught holding a bag with life changing amounts of money lost, or trying to pass it off to another sucker which just feels unethical. For two, families and communities make it hard for people. Ma…

Systemically, the problem is that there needs to be a last person, and yet people leaving expect market value for their homes which normally happens by selling to the next person. The last person can currently only get the money if a disaster strikes and insurance pays out. To do it ahead of schedule, insurance would have to pay out sooner, which means there would have to be some kind of government intervention to ma…

> only get the money if a disaster strikes and insurance pays out.

People in New Orleans have affordable flood insurance?

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#158

Post by esperent »

danaris wrote: post #150
crystal_revenge wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discussion of climate change illegal Well discussing it was de facto banned on HN for many years (still wouldn't be surprised if this post disappears soon). Any climate change post that was anything other than "everything is fine because of electric vehicles/solar/wind/etc", especially if it dare suggest that the situation was dire, would quickly get 'flagged' by the vocal minority (but still surprisingly large gro…

If this was true years ago, it is not anymore. There are plenty of stories, and posts, about climate change. And over the...I dunno, something like 9 years? I've been here, I have observed a distinct but gradual shift to the left in the overall tenor of conversation. Things do change, even here.

Hackernews progresses one carmudgeon funeral at a time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#159

Post by ykonstant »

alex43578 wrote: post #153
lioeters wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Catch a greyhound out of town" is the "Let them eat cake" for the poor and homeless (sorry "unhoused") of New Orleans. Empathy is for the weak, said the oppressor.

Billions have been spent rebuilding New Orleans once. Per the article, there's no realistic way to save New Orleans going forward. It's sad, it's unfortunate, it's reality. The poor and homeless of Louisiana are already receiving massive benefits: 4th in the country for the share of households on welfare, 18% of the population on food stamps, $14B+ in FY23 of federal dollars went to welfare/TANF/Medicaid/etc.

Damn, those poor and homeless are really living it up.

Re: 'Point of no return': New Orleans relocation must start now due to sea level

#160

Post by selimthegrim »

lovich wrote: post #151
ryan_lane wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you fight when your power has been taken away from you? The reason I'm saying you're part of the problem is because you're blaming victims for the situation they're in without realizing that you're up next, and others like you are going to scream "why aren't you doing MORE TO HELP?" while you're screaming "Why isn't anyone helping ME?". Southern states have been stripping people's rights away for decades.

> How can you fight when your power has been taken away from you? In ways I can not articulate on US social media sites without being permabanned. If you are giving power to the authoritarians and doing nothing to stop it, then you are effectively the gasoline in my enemies tanks. I wish it wasn't so, but that is how reality is.

Without going into too many details, I can tell you that the state laws of Louisiana have gotten a lot more preemptively fascist with regard to any sort of organization which you would describe
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