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Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

ecopv-eu.com

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Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#511

Post by tzs »

PaulHoule wrote: post #499
lostlogin wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The will mange it for you - the iOS setting app has options to do this.

Can’t say I really trust that stuff like “charge only when green energy is available”. It’s a nice idea but whenever I’ve used Android devices my expectation was that sometimes I plug in my device at night but it doesn’t really charge and I am not going to pay top dollar and deal with life in a walled garden to have that experience.

Maybe you can do an 80% charge limit on Android the same way I do on my iPad 10?¹ My charger is plugged into a smart plug, and I have an automation written using Apple Shortcuts that turns that smart plug off via Matter whenever the iPad's charge rises above 80%.

I don't know much about Android but assume there must be some way to do similar automations (because I've never seen in any of the Android vs iPhone arguments someone say go with iPhone because of superior automation support).

I recommend going with Matter for the smart plug because if you use the manufacturer's app to control it those often require that you be logged in. The problem with that (beyond any annoyance you might have at needing to make an account to use your device) is that the login might occasionally expire, then your automation breaks.

¹I can't use Apple's charge limit setting because for some reason I can't even guess at when they finally added it to iPadOS they only added it iPads newer than my iPad 10.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#512

Post by rasz »

jvanderbot wrote: post #91
SirMaster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, my iPhones have never come close to this. They are always under 80% capacity before 1000 charge cycles.

unfortunately, it will be based on _design_ / _rated_ capacity, probably.

It will be based on what Apple self reports.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#513

Post by Aurornis »

gwbas1c wrote: post #379
Aurornis wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of the commenters complaining they would never buy this phone is great proof that the removable battery movement is DOA. These phones exist. Companies have been producing them intermittently. When they do, few people buy them and there are always complaints that it's too big, too ugly, not fast enough, or something else. The vocal minority demanding this feature but refusing to buy phones with the feature bel…

> And all of the commenters complaining they would never buy this phone is great proof that the removable battery movement is DOA. I had to reflect on that statement for a bit. I've always bought a new phone when there are battery problems or something else. BUT, that's because I can easily afford it. There are plenty of people in this world who just can't go out and buy a new phone because one part wore out. Or, to…

> There are plenty of people in this world who just can't go out and buy a new phone because one part wore out

Why is this strawman all over this thread? Battery replacement services are well known and honestly affordable. Apple will even do a first-rate job of replacing an iPhone battery for a fraction of the price of a new phone.

This topic is so strange on Hacker News because everyone is either actually unaware of how cheap/easy it is to get battery replacements, or they're feigning that you have to throw away the entire phone to try to make a point.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#514

Post by sokoloff »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #99
sokoloff wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do what EVs do: make 100% on the display not 100.0% electro-chemically and 0% not be 0.0% chemically. This is a serious suggestion, as I think it’s actually net beneficial for the consumer.

The problem is that consumers want to buy a phone with 24 hours of runtime and an EV with 200 miles of range, and they want the phone to be thin and light and the car to be fast and light, and manufacturers want to achieve those capacities with as little electrochemistry as possible. The number of charge cycles at full capacity will be a big deal a year or two in, but on the sales floor it's a secondary concern for t…

> But you'd have a phone or car that weighed 40% more and cost 40% more than one that had no buffer and ran at the bleeding edge on day 1.

But it would also behave on day 1000 just as well as when the user agreed to buy it on day 1, meaning they’re likely still ok with it.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#515

Post by eszed »

Worf wrote: post #429
eszed wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hand over a computer full of my personal data to a corporation I'm equally paranoid, so I back up and wipe any device I hand in for repair. > What if I can't afford to part with that computer? No perfect answer for this, but I've always kept my last phone in a drawer in case my current phone breaks. It's saved me a couple of times. Maybe not everything works, but basic calls and texts always have, and I can use a b…

Without sufficient technical information on how the computer works and without root access, we can't be certain a "wipe" will actually wipe everything. For malware that could be inserted in a targeted manner, even with desktop computers we don't have access the every firmware of every part. When we're talking about mobile "phones", we usually have an interface that tells us "sure, it's wiped", but is it? Without full…

Fair points. I've never owned anything but (rooted) Androids, or (now) GrapheneOS. I don't know if that makes me more paranoid than you are or not; I am, however, much less afraid of a wipe that's not a wipe!

Not everyone has someone with technical skills in their family, so making policy that fits only that minority doesn't make sense to me. The majority will, as you say, "hand over their devices willy-nilly".

I'd rather pursue this as a two-part problem: get the best accommodation we can for hardware, and also impose (very, very) strict data-privacy rules. Trying to do too much at once risks accomplishing too little.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#516

Post by zuzululu »

euburrocrat wrote: post #405

Regulatory Superpower I am european and proud.. but what has europe created in the last 20 years worth of mention

I can't really think of a single product or service that is from Europe. I can think of several things that are American and a couple from Korea and Japan. Even China.

I don't think this trajectory is going to change, rather Europe seems to be doubling down on whatever hasn't been working. Sucks for young Europeans.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#517

Post by ben-schaaf »

lightedman wrote: post #334
ben-schaaf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their latest and greatest PRO 3 runs a chip that was mid-range when it releases 4 years ago and only 6 GB of RAM. That is decidedly not a flagship.

My Kyocera will work in orbit and withstand intense radiation. In fact, this very moment my new Duraforce Pro 3 is having fun in a launch-testing thermal/vac chamber. Kyocera's 'flagship' is high-reliability phones in absolute garbage environments. Samsung's 'flagship' overheats and earns them class-action lawsuits. Motorola's 'flagship' is a hinged throwback to the 90s. Apple's 'flagship' is an overpriced piece of v…

How does any of that prevent the phone from having the latest chip and copious ram?

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#518

Post by anonymars »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #517
lightedman wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Kyocera will work in orbit and withstand intense radiation. In fact, this very moment my new Duraforce Pro 3 is having fun in a launch-testing thermal/vac chamber. Kyocera's 'flagship' is high-reliability phones in absolute garbage environments. Samsung's 'flagship' overheats and earns them class-action lawsuits. Motorola's 'flagship' is a hinged throwback to the 90s. Apple's 'flagship' is an overpriced piece of v…

How does any of that prevent the phone from having the latest chip and copious ram?

Radiation hardening would do that

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#519

Post by arendtio »

protimewaster wrote: post #498
arendtio wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what exactly is a charge cycle? I mean, the effect on a battery being loaded from 0% to 100% and drained to 0% again is vastly different from a battery being charged from 40% to 50% and being used until 40% ten times in a row.

I also wonder how this is impacted by time. If I have a device that's at 75% capacity at 200 cycles, but it's 7 years old, does that fail to meet these requirements? Because my experience has been that the cycle count doesn't matter that much as the battery gets old. Old batteries just lose capacity.

That's another valid point: when you just keep a battery around and don't use it, it also loses capacity at a certain point.

So even when you don't use them, you have to babysit lithium-ion batteries. That's why I still love devices with those crappy AA batteries. In general, those have lower capacity, but you can just dump a device into a drawer for 3 years (remember to take the batteries out or use rechargeables) and just put fresh batteries into the device when you need it.

For example, I have those wireless Sennheiser over-ear headphones, which are probably 10+ years old, but they just keep working because they use AAA rechargeables.

Re: Removable batteries in smartphones will be mandatory in the EU starting in 2027

#520

Post by joquarky »

tzs wrote: post #511
PaulHoule wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t say I really trust that stuff like “charge only when green energy is available”. It’s a nice idea but whenever I’ve used Android devices my expectation was that sometimes I plug in my device at night but it doesn’t really charge and I am not going to pay top dollar and deal with life in a walled garden to have that experience.

Maybe you can do an 80% charge limit on Android the same way I do on my iPad 10?¹ My charger is plugged into a smart plug, and I have an automation written using Apple Shortcuts that turns that smart plug off via Matter whenever the iPad's charge rises above 80%. I don't know much about Android but assume there must be some way to do similar automations (because I've never seen in any of the Android vs iPhone argumen…

I have latest Android on the Pixel 8. I just checked and found it under Settings > Battery > Battery Health

It specifically has an option for 80% (const) or an "Adaptive Charge" predictive algorithm that charges to 80% and then only fully charges to 100% right before you typically unplug it from the charger.

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