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Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

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Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#121

Post by AlexandrB »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #31
manytimesaway wrote: post #12

Don't forget that the guy behing Denuvo is the same person behind SafeDisc, SecuROM and similar bullshit siblings from the past PC gaming world.

[flagged]

I don't think piracy has much to do with it. AAA (of even AA) single player games sell really well. Just not well enough to be the equivalent of a money-printing machine like Fortnite. Spiderman 2 sold something like 17 million copies between PC and PS5. Still nothing compared to the $30+ billion in revenue that Fortnite has generated so far. So everyone is chasing that Fortnite $$$.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#122

Post by cardanome »

Barrin92 wrote: post #79
lesuorac wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a long time now I've found it weird that people who like single player games on PC (and to a lesser extent older consoles which had piracy enabling mods) didn't acknowledge the long game consequences of their actions Isn't historically piracy positive for sales [1]? That said, I'm pretty sure the real issue is that single / local coop games are just not appealing and so they get weaker sales. Like wtf was with…

>Isn't historically piracy positive for sales [1]? if it was for the companies who use Denuvo and it added negative value then Denuvo wouldn't exist as a business and game publishers would happily post their games to pirate sites themselves. The level of copium involved in piracy debates is always a sight to behold. I'm no saint, I've pirated stuff too but I did so because I was cheap, not because I'm doing the compa…

> if it was for the companies who use Denuvo and it added negative value then Denuvo wouldn't exist as a business and game publishers would happily post their games to pirate sites themselves.

Efficient market fallacy strikes again.

No, is is absolutely possible that use of Denuvo results in a net loss and it is still used. Executives don't always behave rational and it is not like you can AB Test that thing or even easily measure its impact.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#123

Post by Mindwipe »

Kuraj wrote: post #43
lousken wrote: post #41

I would hope publishers would take note and remove it, having hundreds of megabytes of junk in the executable is just wasteful to put it mildly

The bigger problem with Denuvo is that it appears to significantly impact game performance as well

The evidence for this supposed performance hit is basically zero.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#124

Post by duped »

everyone wrote: post #71
duped wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason anti piracy companies make a living is because companies that buy it see concrete increases in revenue as a result. It may not be every pirate who converts to a customer but DRM solutions are priced to be below the expected additional revenue. And it's not always cheap.

Do you have any data to support that? I'd actually be really interested to see. There are a lot of weird ass games with Denuvo (like Handball 17, Bus Simulator 18) I think at least sometimes paying a big DRM subscriptions is part of a money laundering scheme.

Only anecdata which I'm not allowed to publicize. All I'll say is that places that use this stuff are often operating at low margins and if they didn't see benefits they wouldn't pay for it.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#125

Post by cardanome »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #91
ktallett wrote: post #15

I've had to take a moral stance and move to just playing games on Gog that I can buy and own the files for. No I can't play the latest and greatest but it's not the end of the world as I've so many classics to still play and enjoy. I can't support lockdown and DRM anymore. If I buy I want to own, otherwise I've not bought. It is true, if buying isn't owning, then piracy isn't stealing.

Generally any game you can buy on GoG is also DRM free on Steam. I mention since many people have the incorrect notion that all Steam games have DRM

While Valve isn't the worst company when you buy on GoG you support a company dedicated to keeping things DRM free and preserving older games. Plus fight the Steam monopoly.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#126

Post by embedding-shape »

philistine wrote: post #118
lousken wrote: post #41

I would hope publishers would take note and remove it, having hundreds of megabytes of junk in the executable is just wasteful to put it mildly

Denuvo is there to prevent piracy within the first 90 days of release. Something like 60 to 80% of a game’s revenue is during that period. They don’t care that it’s eventually cracked, and they absolutely do not care about performance.

> Denuvo is there to prevent piracy within the first 90 days of release [...] They don’t care that it’s eventually cracked

Ah, so Denuvo is always removed after ~90 days after release, as there is no point for them to keep it there?

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#127

Post by Mindwipe »

pocksuppet wrote: post #92
everyone wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any data to support that? I'd actually be really interested to see. There are a lot of weird ass games with Denuvo (like Handball 17, Bus Simulator 18) I think at least sometimes paying a big DRM subscriptions is part of a money laundering scheme.

There's data against it. The EU conducted a study then suppressed it until an MP eventually made a FOIA request to get the results, because the results weren't what they wanted it to say. https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-22-eu-suppressed-study-pira...

That report wasn't suppressed. It wasn't published because the methodology had a 44% margin of error, and subsequently it was totally useless.

(https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy...)

It doesn't provide data suggesting that piracy doesn't hurt sales. It literally doesn't provide any data at all.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#129

Post by NicuCalcea »

embedding-shape wrote: post #126
philistine wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denuvo is there to prevent piracy within the first 90 days of release. Something like 60 to 80% of a game’s revenue is during that period. They don’t care that it’s eventually cracked, and they absolutely do not care about performance.

> Denuvo is there to prevent piracy within the first 90 days of release [...] They don’t care that it’s eventually cracked Ah, so Denuvo is always removed after ~90 days after release, as there is no point for them to keep it there?

Denuvo is sold as a subscription to developers, and it is often removed 6–12 months after release.

Re: Denuvo has been cracked in all single-player games it previously protected

#130

Post by Barrin92 »

danlitt wrote: post #89
Barrin92 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Isn't historically piracy positive for sales [1]? if it was for the companies who use Denuvo and it added negative value then Denuvo wouldn't exist as a business and game publishers would happily post their games to pirate sites themselves. The level of copium involved in piracy debates is always a sight to behold. I'm no saint, I've pirated stuff too but I did so because I was cheap, not because I'm doing the compa…

How are the game companies supposed to determine that it adds negative value? Speak to the alternative universe where the same game wasn't bundled with it?

>How are the game companies supposed to determine that it adds negative value?

Look at their own/industry data of comparable games that have been published with or without protection. I worked in the game industry, for AAA studios it's a no brainer. Denuvo for a big title that sells millions of copies runs about high six or low seven figures in costs, so about 1-3% of the budget, whereas preventing piracy in the first 12 weeks meant something like a 10-20% increase (tens of millions) in sales.

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