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Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

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Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#31

Post by AlexandrB »

pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

The insane practice was allowing "O" and "0" to be used in license plate numbers in the first place. Once you do that, you're stuck dealing with the fallout of trying to distinguish confusing glyphs at distance on a moving vehicle. Many places omit letters that can be confused like this for good reason - e.g. Ontario plates can't have the letters G, I, O, Q, and U.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#32

Post by toast0 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #18
LocalH wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say the employees should be imprisoned. I said the c-suite, the ones actually in charge. They're enabling these cops to be lazy and not do their job properly, and have directly contributed to numerous human rights violations.

C Suite are employees too. I do not see them breaking any laws, but I do see government employees abusing their power, if not breaking the law.

C-suite are officers. Officers have more responsibility.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#33

Post by toast0 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #18
LocalH wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say the employees should be imprisoned. I said the c-suite, the ones actually in charge. They're enabling these cops to be lazy and not do their job properly, and have directly contributed to numerous human rights violations.

C Suite are employees too. I do not see them breaking any laws, but I do see government employees abusing their power, if not breaking the law.

C-suite are officers. Officers have more responsibility for the conduct of the company than employees.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#34

Post by tadfisher »

virissimo wrote: post #26
pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

It's not insane at all to return both in a lookup. The "reporting person" will often be wrong about slight variations when calling in a license plate and the downside of errors are asymmetric: it is much more dangerous for the officer to think a driver doesn't have a warrant when they do versus thinking they have a warrant when they don't.

Sorry, is it not also much more dangerous for the erroneously-flagged person to be put in this situation? I imagine anyone legally transporting a weapon, for example, would be put in material risk for their safety by this practice.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#35

Post by LocalH »

pj_mukh wrote: post #23
LocalH wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, AI has no place in law enforcement. It's the hammer that is being used to put screws in. It enables injustice at a far larger scale than ever before. See: the TN woman who was extradited to NC, having never been there, for a crime that the AI "face recognition" flagged as her, and the cops did zero actual investigation, they just took the AI at its word and put her in jail for six months. I also remember a man…

"the TN woman who was extradited to NC," Yup, exactly. Look that case up, it had nothing to do with Flock. It was facial recognition software and an old school database built in 2014, so likely not big-data ML (AlexNet hadn't even come out) but classic CV. Productivity improvements will be needed in all industries. I'd rather have fewer well-paid and well-trained, accountable LEO's that have all the productivity tool…

I'd rather we have cops who are required to actually investigate, versus just taking what a computer program tells them as if it is inerrant gospel

Maybe if the cops can prove they actually did investigation and were only prompted by the AI to do that investigation, I'd agree. But the whole problem is that the cops are blindly using AI to tell them who to arrest, which is such a blatant rights violation that I can't see how anyone could support it and sleep soundly at night

Also, a non-zero number of cops have been using AI to stalk ex-partners. That's just known cases, and it stands to reason there are also a non-zero number of cops who have done it and not been caught. Since a single such case is too many, it needs to stop.

Also, don't forget, "good" cops who aren't reporting bad cops and trying to get them off the force are also really bad cops

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#36

Post by ragall »

pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

[dead]

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#38

Post by LocalH »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #21
LocalH wrote: post #3

Flock should be shut down and their entire c-suite should be sent to prison for human rights violations Also, not just an isolated incident: https://youtu.be/8BImTddknfk We need strong laws preventing any AI process from being used for law enforcement at all . The mere presence of AI at any step in the process should result in complete exoneration.

"We need strong laws preventing any AI process from being used for law enforcement at all. The mere presence of AI at any step in the process should result in complete exoneration." Why? It seems to me that the biggest problem with policing is qualified immunity that prevents proper feedback (or what my dad would have called "consequences"). Without that, the tools the police use are largely irrelevant.

Good luck ending qualified immunity. The current SCOTUS would strike such a law down in seconds if it reached their docket

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#39

Post by anigbrowl »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #18
LocalH wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say the employees should be imprisoned. I said the c-suite, the ones actually in charge. They're enabling these cops to be lazy and not do their job properly, and have directly contributed to numerous human rights violations.

C Suite are employees too. I do not see them breaking any laws, but I do see government employees abusing their power, if not breaking the law.

No they're not, they're executives who can only be fired by the board. Equating them with line-level employees is somewhere between naive and isingenuous.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#40

Post by LocalH »

smt88 wrote: post #12
LocalH wrote: post #5

Since I got downvoted, this isn't just this guy. https://youtu.be/8BImTddknfk Turns out police are putting ambiguous plates in the system under all variants, and Flock is lapping it up. The cops who do so should also go to prison.

Cops have qualified immunity and unions with supreme power. No one will go to prison or even reprimanded for this.

I hope you agree with me that is exactly the problem, but AI use in law enforcement only enables the problem to become way worse, with few upsides.
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