And yet democrata.ch, who released the article, blocks me from accessing their free website because of my VPN :)
Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
81–90 of 237 posts
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...
This statement really makes no sense.. > Google, Cloudflare, VPN providers, and other entities facilitating piracy are responsible for the illegal activities they enable and profit from. Why wouldn't ISPs be responsible too? or the cable modem providers? or the computer providers? or your eyes. Let's just blame all those things and not the person that made it or the person that consumes it.
Cloudflare are actively involved in publishing this content — they are equivalent to the hosting provider.
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content Why make CloudFlare ultimately responsible though? There are lots of companies between users and the servers providing pirated content. Cloudflare is just one step in the whole chain. Why not eg block Google Chrome? In any case, blocking Cloudflare was a stupid thing to do. Especially because it didn't anything to solve the actual problem.
Cloudflare provide a service masking the IP address of the illegal content, really you know the answer to when them and not Chrome
Okay and Chrome provide a service displaying the illegal content to the user. What now?
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#84I'm interested in how those conversations went between the LaLiga and Cloudflare that convinced them to do this. I know I'm not Cloudflare, but if a company (any company) came to me demanding blocking IP ranges according the their schedule that would require a bunch of work on my end to make it happen, there's going to be a lot of push back. It'd take a dump truck load of money to make that happen.
Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...
From the link:
> Cloudflare has facilitated by knowingly protecting criminal organisations for profit
The propaganda is strong with these guys ...
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#85Context: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-pira…
Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justification, they block and that's all. It has been a shame since the beginning.
What would it look like if you sued La Liga for using their lawful blocking power in a way that injured you?
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the one hand, I would tend to agree that making things painful enough might force people to stop ignoring and improve things. On the other, after seeing waves hands at everything since 2016 makes me very skeptical of accelerationism: sometimes things just get worse and worse, there's no bottom to bounce from. Or maybe we just never really hit rock bottom?
The bottom is just so much farther down than we remember. Tremendous progress was made in the 20th century, particularly in the aftermath of WWII, and we've kind of just been coasting on it for 50 years. Accelerationism was always a terrible idea.
It took tens of millions of dead to create the relative peace of the later 20th century, that is a hell of a rock bottom. We got the UN, nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, war crimes treaties, free trade, unprecedented prosperity. It's humanity's greatest achievement but we're throwing it all away. Partly due to attacks from monied interests and propagandists, partly to protect Israel (the 15th Crusade), partly because of hatred of peaceniks and bureaucrats, but largely because we've all forgotten the costly lessons.
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#87Context: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-pira…
I fervently hope that no one manages to obtain a similar judgment at the pan-EU level, that would be a disaster.
I don't think there's an injunction mechanism like that at the EU level
And even if there were I doubt the legal basis in EU law exists for such an injunction
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justification, they block and that's all. It has been a shame since the beginning.
What would it look like if you sued La Liga for using their lawful blocking power in a way that injured you?
A very expensive lawsuit that, even if successful, will result in a difficult to enforce judgment?
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#89One of the things that so often gets lost in politics is the concept of a stopping principle . If you know you want to do X, be it "enforce traffic tickets", "spend money chasing drug trafficking", or anything else, you really ought to be able to articulate some sort of stopping principle where you stop pouring the resources in. Maybe the problem is adequately solved. Maybe the further resources don't justify the tin…
> Taken to its logical conclusion, and I do mean "logical" and not "rhetorically overblown for effect", this comes perilously close to just declaring that the value of the Internet is so net negative due to piracy that it should just be shut down in Spain. What you’ve described there is completely overblown for rhetoric. The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to b…
> The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to be any pressure to turn off the entire internet.
Cloudflare serves a whole bunch of legal and genuinely important services, and yet there was enough pressure to block them off.
Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cloudflare provide a service masking the IP address of the illegal content, really you know the answer to when them and not Chrome
Okay and Chrome provide a service displaying the illegal content to the user. What now?
Can you get closer to the source than chrome? Can you get closer to the source than cloudflare?
Don't be disingenuous just because you like the company.