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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

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Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#71

Post by dbbk »

dylan604 wrote: post #23
e1g wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually had to revert our rollout of CF Workers because enough of our users were in Spain and couldn’t access endpoints at seemingly arbitrary times (due to the matches)

They are only seemingly arbitrary to people that are not actually paying attention. Now that people are, the blocks are known in advance to those that look at a the schedule. Sure, it sucks to have to build this into your own schedule, but that's better than it happening "unexpectedly". You could do something crazy like import these times into your own calendar with reminders.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Obviously the schedule of matches is public. But what are you suggesting the business does during this time...? Their site is offline.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#72

Post by booi »

matteason wrote: post #40
dylan604 wrote: post #25

I'm interested in how those conversations went between the LaLiga and Cloudflare that convinced them to do this. I know I'm not Cloudflare, but if a company (any company) came to me demanding blocking IP ranges according the their schedule that would require a bunch of work on my end to make it happen, there's going to be a lot of push back. It'd take a dump truck load of money to make that happen.

Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...

This statement really makes no sense..

> Google, Cloudflare, VPN providers, and other entities facilitating piracy are responsible for the illegal activities they enable and profit from.

Why wouldn't ISPs be responsible too? or the cable modem providers? or the computer providers? or your eyes. Let's just blame all those things and not the person that made it or the person that consumes it.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#73

Post by dwedge »

stavros wrote: post #39
dwedge wrote: post #19

I'm torn on this. It always should have gone through the courts, but the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content and not doing anything about it. They were left with two choices if Cloudflare refuse to act. Either accept it (oh well, too big to fail), or block them. I dislike what is happening but I kind of like that they don't care about the size of Cloudflare and hold them as accountable as…

How much of a responsibility should the provider have to scan what they're hosting and proactively make a judgment on whether they should block it or not?

Who should bear that responsibility?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#74

Post by dylan604 »

dbbk wrote: post #71
dylan604 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are only seemingly arbitrary to people that are not actually paying attention. Now that people are, the blocks are known in advance to those that look at a the schedule. Sure, it sucks to have to build this into your own schedule, but that's better than it happening "unexpectedly". You could do something crazy like import these times into your own calendar with reminders.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Obviously the schedule of matches is public. But what are you suggesting the business does during this time...? Their site is offline.

Service Unavailable For Scheduled Maintenance

However, my post was a tounge-in-cheek response.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#75

Post by dbbk »

charcircuit wrote: post #42
rtkwe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unreasonable to expect cloudflare etc to be able to proactively identify legal vs illegal streams. The companies who own the copyrights can't even get that right much less a third party that has no idea if a stream is licensed.

Cloudflare can assign IPs based off customer reputation. High risk customers get high risk IPs. This way legitimate businesses stay on IPs that don't get blacklisted and sketchier businesses go on high risk IPs before they potentially get banned.

They already do this. Free tier IPs are separate from Pro tier, Enterprise tier, etc.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#76

Post by booi »

alprado50 wrote: post #26

It is insane that you could block access to hundreds of sites just because some people decided to watch an ilegal stream.

try 45 million sites including many absolutely critical to people's lives and health.

https://trends.builtwith.com/cdn/Cloudflare

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#77

Post by phillipseamore »

echoangle wrote: post #64
matteason wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...

> Through this conduct, Cloudflare is actively enabling illegal activities such as human trafficking, prostitution, pornography, counterfeiting, fraud, and scams, among other things. Pornography is illegal in Spain now?

hey, at least they've dropped terrorism and organized crime from the list of "if you support piracy you are really supporting..."

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#78

Post by hnlmorg »

jerf wrote: post #50

One of the things that so often gets lost in politics is the concept of a stopping principle . If you know you want to do X, be it "enforce traffic tickets", "spend money chasing drug trafficking", or anything else, you really ought to be able to articulate some sort of stopping principle where you stop pouring the resources in. Maybe the problem is adequately solved. Maybe the further resources don't justify the tin…

> Taken to its logical conclusion, and I do mean "logical" and not "rhetorically overblown for effect", this comes perilously close to just declaring that the value of the Internet is so net negative due to piracy that it should just be shut down in Spain.

What you’ve described there is completely overblown for rhetoric.

The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to be any pressure to turn off the entire internet.

Plus the likes of Amazon, and other online businesses would sue the hell out of La Liga for loss of trade.

So there’s no way in hell the situation would descend into your “logical conclusion”.

That’s not to say that the situation couldn’t get worse that it already is. Just that your logical conclusion isn’t very logical.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#79

Post by necubi »

pixel_popping wrote: post #59

Love the hypocrisy (my IP is blocked): 403 ERROR The request could not be satisfied. Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront)

CloudFront may sound like Cloudflare, but it is an unrelated AWS service (https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/)

(Disclaimer: I work for Cloudflare)

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#80

Post by AtNightWeCode »

pjc50 wrote: post #32
matteason wrote: post #10

Context: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-pira…

Maybe someone can explain, but I don't understand why such an order isn't applied to cloudflare themselves?

CF would pretty much need to monitor this live in that case which is impossible. The pirates sometimes even create new domains for specific games.

This is a risk with shared IP addresses. I sold CF to many customers and I would say the risk in general is minimal. At least outside Spain. But people should stop whining and use a better service if needed.

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